Bloody Mummers Skirmishers vs Bolton Cutthroats (i.e. Parry vs Vicious)

[sacrilege83]

Why take the newly released BMS over the Cutthroats for the same stats with 1 point extra cost? So one of their abilities mirror each other, weakened instead of vulnerable. Where the extra point cost comes in at is the Parry ability vs Vicious. It helps that Parry has synergy with the Weakened ability compared to where Cutthroats don't create Panic. That being said Vicious is pretty good to decrease morale by -2. So is Parry really better and worth the 1 extra point? I'm on the fence of it being worth it for a 1 out of 6 chance per attack die.

Who do you match them against? I'm thinking any unit that charges you with 4+ or 5+ attack will have to think twice re-rolling their failed dice. Anyone that has a high number of attack dice, yet again these guys will shatter easily like the Cutthroats once they're attacked.

Another question I have is that do wounds on 1 still count before charge bonus re-rolls or any attack dice re-rolls? Then I'll say that makes Parry more dangerous.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot that there is an attack dice difference where Cutthroats are 8, 6, 4 whereas Mummers are 7, 5, 4.

[AutumnLeaves]

Cutthroats seem much better - Vicious increases their damage output, they get an extra attack dice, and they're a point cheaper.

Parry is okay, but the Mummers really aren't a unit that you want to get attacked in the first place.

[Oakwolf]

Cutthroats seem much better - Vicious increases their damage output, they get an extra attack dice, and they're a point cheaper.

Parry is okay, but the Mummers really aren't a unit that you want to get attacked in the first place.

I think that they're made to go with Tywin or the Goat as commanders, and that's pretty much it. Pycell seems mandatory to get enough tokens.

The Mummers are not as strong as cutthroats, but in a Tywin list, they can produce more weakened tokens (which protects them). The Parry rule is a bit of a gimmick, but it works much better with Weakened tokens (more chances for 1s). So unless your army focuses on weakened tokens, they're a hard pass. Overall it does look like that unit should/could have been a 5pt one though… neutral tax maybe (and Cutthroats are the only neutral unit that do not seem to pay it)

[AutumnLeaves]

Yeah, I agree - though those same weakened tokens can be used to protect Cutthroats just as easily

[Oakwolf]

Indeed. The only saving grace there is that mummers can create their own token.

Cutthroats can provide vulnerable (which is huge too), but that's more valuable for say...Sir Rodrik Cassel.

[sacrilege83]

Yeah when going vanilla in a Neutral army only, the Skirmishers just don't cut it. I have a hard time placing their role without an attachment. And would you want an expensive attachment in this unit? They're just as fragile as the Cutthroats.

[Oakwolf]

Yeah when going vanilla in a Neutral army only, the Skirmishers just don't cut it. I have a hard time placing their role without an attachment. And would you want an expensive attachment in this unit? They're just as fragile as the Cutthroats.

I was really surprised they didn't come with an attachment, too. Theme-wise, it'd have been good to have more than Vargo Hoat for a Mummer army, from the Neutral perspective.

If the mummers were 5pts, they'd be ok-ish...though i wonder if they could have been vicious at 6pts

[Gallahad]

Yeah, I honestly regret buying the Bloody Mummers. I think they will be fun to paint, but they sure seen crummy for the points..

[Oakwolf]

Yeah, I honestly regret buying the Bloody Mummers. I think they will be fun to paint, but they sure seen crummy for the points..

At this point, here we decided that once all factions are out, we'll make house rules for all the neutral themes...just examples:

• House Bolton will have its own tactic deck and will be treated as a faction of its own. That will allow some of the units to be as specialized as they should be (Flayed Men, Blackguards).
• Stormcrows will be attached to House Targaryen
• Mummers will be attached to House Lannister

This will reduce the number of units that need to be balanced across factions (too many combos available, so the units end up costing too much...or being weaker than they should)


Imho, the neutral factions should have seen things like:

Peasant levy: dirt cheap, undisciplined troops as fodders.
Siege Engines: Catapults, balistas, battering ram crews...things that most factions could engineer.
Landless Knights: Medium cavalry that represent the 2nd sons of noble house that would perform in a similar way from one house to another.
Bravosi Sellswords
Pirates and Marines

[Gallahad]

At this point, here we decided that once all factions are out, we'll make house rules for all the neutral themes...just examples:

• House Bolton will have its own tactic deck and will be treated as a faction of its own. That will allow some of the units to be as specialized as they should be (Flayed Men, Blackguards).
• Stormcrows will be attached to House Targaryen
• Mummers will be attached to House Lannister

This will reduce the number of units that need to be balanced across factions (too many combos available, so the units end up costing too much...or being weaker than they should)


Imho, the neutral factions should have seen things like:

Peasant levy: dirt cheap, undisciplined troops as fodders.
Siege Engines: Catapults, balistas, battering ram crews...things that most factions could engineer.
Landless Knights: Medium cavalry that represent the 2nd sons of noble house that would perform in a similar way from one house to another.
Bravosi Sellswords
Pirates and Marines

Yeah, I think that giving neutral only armies a boost is a fine approach. I think the easiest way to do this is simply allowing more points. So for example, a neutral only army could play a 43 point army in a 40 pt match for example.
3 points lets you add several great attachments or squeeze in another full unit if you run other units naked.

[Sine Luce]

I play a Tywin list with bloody mummers skirmishers and as everybody said above in Tywin list they are efficient, but cutthroats stay stronger in other list.
i have a question about BMS : can I cumulate the effect of parry ability and tactic card exploit weakness ?

[AutumnLeaves]

can I cumulate the effect of parry ability and tactic card exploit weakness ?

Yep, you can!

[Sine Luce]

So if my opponent roll two 1 on his attack dices, his unit suffer 4 wounds (2 for parry and 2 for exploit weakness) + 2 additional wounds if I’ve forced him to re roll

[AutumnLeaves]

Yep, it's a strong combo - although you can only do it twice, and only if you've drawn the card.

[Sine Luce]

Yes, It’s a very good combo, make it once is possible but twice need to be lucky