Interaction between 'brienne the blue' and 'counter charge'
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Thread: Interaction between 'brienne the blue' and 'counter charge'

  1. #1

    Question Interaction between 'brienne the blue' and 'counter charge'

    Hello, so just looking for official clarification on the interaction between the ability for 'Brienne the blue' from the new baratheon heroes and the tactics card 'countercharge'.

    After Renly has been attacked, can you play counter charge and declare brienne's ability, use countercharge to charge with brienne's unit and then use her ability to attack with the unit?

    This topic has caused a lot of discussion in my play group, I claim that it can be used like this and it is perfectly legal. My opponents are saying that this is wrong as when you declare that you are using brienne's ability, it is at this point you must select the charge because the mellee attack is not legal at this point.
    My counter arguement is that the whole ability is used after countercharge so you do not need to choose to charge or attack with brienne until after you have resolved countercharge.

    There has been a whole thread on the FB page which doesnt seem to clarify it as people are saying both yes and no. I personally am leaning to yes it is perfectly legal but my peers are saying it's not.
    Last edited by Aaron taylor; 03-29-2020 at 03:58 PM.

  2. #2

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    From the 1.5 rulebook errata, "After a unit is attacked" happens at the "Attack completed" step, so both Counter Charge and Renly's Protector must be played at the same time.

    Since they have to be played at the same time, you can use Counter Charge to declare a charge, and then use Renly's Protector to get a free attack, since you can choose the order in which the actions are resolved.

  3. #3

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    Guess I will just have to penalize myself and refuse to use it like that. I just cannot get over the fact that the melee attack is illegal at the point of the trigger, both card and ability Effects are declared The whole point of this would be to use melee attack. The logic I use that in order to be simultaneous you would have to be able to use them in either order. But you cannot use melee attack first as its illegal. It states in rulebook rules for abilitys are shown on card in full her's says 1 charge action or attack action. To me this implies her effect is on two parts and you choose 1. So you 'have' to use the card first to make it work therefore not simultaneous. The counter argument is well I "could" use her charge action. So it's legal even though I know and everyone else knows that's not gonna happen. We have to ignore the charge OR melee. and choose niether until card charge resolves. ?? For me you declare the which effect you wish to trigger and this should be only one of hers as the rules on 'her card specifical say this as per rulebook. The effects are a charge or melee attack. So you should choose which one you are using then resolve those in order That cannot be melee as you are not engaged. To use it the other way seems to be very rules rapey. I mean at very least not many here can belive that it is the intent for this 0 point attachment to be able to get free charge and two free attacks. With this combo ??? Honestly just pop her into a unit of 6pt sentinels for a quick potential 18 dice worth of sundering attacks nothing short of a game designer popping on to confirm this would convince me this is how it should be played and if they do that would blow my mind.
    Last edited by Bruce635; 03-30-2020 at 04:51 AM.

  4. #4

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    The whole ability is charge or attack. The steps would be;
    Trigger - Renlys unit has been attacked.

    1. Play countercharge and declare the use of brienne's ability.
    2.Resolve the effects of countercharge - make a charge targeting the attacker.
    3.Resolve the effects of brienne's ability - her unit may choose to either make a charge or an attack.

    You do not choose which bits of effects you are using until you resolve the whole effect.

  5. #5

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    Just for clarity Myself and Aaron are the people who started the facebook discussion, and disagree.Wierdly I am the Bart player who would benefit if the decision went against me. However we have reached the point where having heard a lot of reasoning on the face book. Nothing short of a comment from a designer will be likley to resolve our difference of opinion. Thanks in advance if the game gods deem to settle this for us. Ps no one will cry who ever is proved correct.
    Last edited by Bruce635; 03-30-2020 at 06:09 AM.

  6. #6

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    Don't have much to add here aside from what has already been said- you do not resolve any part of the effect separately from any of the rest, which is what is attempting to be done here. Abilities, Cards, and Effects all have triggers. There are two simultaneous triggers happening here, the owner chooses the order in which they resolve. Nothing on either of those effects will take place until they resolve. Choosing to do a Charge or Melee is part of the effect, not the trigger.

  7. #7

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    Thanx for taking the time. To respond it's me who is struggling to except it
    Is there any other situation in the game where an action that could not be carried out when looked at on it's own can be done in in context of simultaneous activations? If I could find another example of this anyway I could g
    happily conceed the point and walk away with a happy man with lady blue ready to kick ass. However having had a good look.I am struggling to find another example of this situation. Quite a few people have said that's how it works but I can find no other compatible example of this in action At the end of the day if it widely accepted and none of the big guys respond. Then I wont loose sleep over it. But if I am gonna turn up at my local tourney and pull off an sentinel attack 8dice plus panic followed by 10dice and panic. Need it to be cast iron so I dont feel like a shit heel lol.

  8. #8

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    Another example - you put Mance Rayder on crown. Pick an enemy that is already panicked and make him roll Panic Test. He fails, you can reroll it with his panic token, and then put that token back on the unit using Mance's ability. Looking at it, you put panic token on panicked enemy. If you HAD to use Mance first, when he claim the zone, then his ability wouldn't work (of course talking only about panic tokens). With simultaneous action, you can choose to use crown first, then to use Mance's ability.

  9. #9

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    That's seems like Ligit example thank you very much for that I can stop over thinking it now with a clear conscience.

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