Defense Save definition on Precision and possible extra Blocks (e.g. Expert Parry)
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Thread: Defense Save definition on Precision and possible extra Blocks (e.g. Expert Parry)

  1. #1

    Default Defense Save definition on Precision and possible extra Blocks (e.g. Expert Parry)

    Precision: "Hits from rolls of 6 do not allow Defense Saves"
    Expert Parry: "Each Defense Save roll of 6 blocks 2 Hits"

    Two interpretations for "Defense Saves":
    A) Does the Precision only factually lessen the amount of Defense Save dice?
    (is "not allowing Defense Saves" just reduction to the amount of Defense Save dice you roll?)

    B) Does the Precision (also) prevent Hits from roll of 6 to be Saved by any Defense Save source?
    (is "not allowing Defense Saves" limitation that the source of the Block cannot be Defense Save roll?)

    As in, can Expert Parry's extra Defense Save block from rolls of 6 (and 5) block Precision hits, or not?


    Extra notes to avoid derailing:
    1) The concept of "Block" and "Defense Save" is understood in above question:
    They are NOT the same thing. Defense Save is the game term to act of rolling defense dice. Block is possible (later) end result of a Defense Save die roll. Part of the question is, that do blocks have source (e.g. "this block is from Defense Save, that one is not").

    2) Shield Wall: "Automatically block d3 hits" and it's FAQ entry should not be relevant to to this discussion:
    Shield Wall blocks are not from Defense Save, Expert Parry's extra blocks are from Defense Save. Shield Wall happens before (outside of) Defense Save. So it cannot be effectively used as example to this discussion, as it does not answer to the question.

  2. #2

    Default

    At first I didn't understand because I thought it was clear but the idea of "defense save" is an awkward term because it isn't referred to in the rulebook when you consider the attack sequence.

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    I guess there would need to be an FAQ here for clarification. Is the "defense save" the roll or the result of a successful roll?

  3. #3

    Default

    Based on the wording of Expert Parry (“Each Defense Save roll of 6 blocks 2 hits”), I would interpret that the definition of a save is any hit the defender is attempting to negate with a die roll. So you would not be able to attempt to negate hits resulting from Precision with Expert Parry.

    As an example:
    • Attacker with Precision scores 4 hits with rolls of 4, 5, 6, & 6. So, two of those hits are with Precision.
    • Defender, who has Expert Parry, may only attempt to save against the 4 & 5.
    • Defender rolls two dice and gets a 1 and a 6. The one doesn’t save, but the 6 blocks the two hits without Precision.
    • Absent any other shenanigans, Defender takes 2 wounds.


    So yes, I’d say that Precision is reducing the number of dice that a defender will be able to roll when making a save.
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  4. #4

    Default

    I agree with you and we play it like that. We use the term save like games workshop games where the save is the roll attempt itself. On a success it is "saved", "made", or "successful"

  5. #5

    Default

    If the defender gets 6 and 6, whats happen??

  6. #6

    Default

    No change—there’s only two hits the defender can block. The hits scored on account of Precision still get through.
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by serbaelish View Post
    No change—there’s only two hits the defender can block. The hits scored on account of Precision still get through.

    I have heard extremely differing opinions on the Discord channel.
    Hence this question in the official CMON forum.

  8. #8

    Default

    I feel that we’ve come full circle...
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  9. #9

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    There's a discord!? Anyone got a link?

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittadean View Post
    There's a discord!? Anyone got a link?
    Sent you a PM. It expires in a day, which is why I didn't post here.
    "I did warn you not to trust me." -Littlefinger

  11. #11

    Default

    Dude you are awesome! Thanks man!

  12. #12

    Default

    We’ve been playing it as Option A, but could see how B could be the official ruling.

    My thoughts being it doesn’t make it unblockable, just harder to block. Expert Parry being a chance to counter it, so only happening in certain matchups.
    House - Ravenhurst
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    Words - “We do not Highlight”

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