Overrun... Counter charge... Swift retreat
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Thread: Overrun... Counter charge... Swift retreat

  1. #1

    Default Overrun... Counter charge... Swift retreat

    Hi every body.
    One of my friend was wondering. If I play overrun that replaces the surge forth. My enemy plays counter charge and then I play Swift retreat. Do I still get my overrun ?

  2. #2

    Default

    Yes.

    Countercharge and Swift retreat causes just before Surge forth (that was replaced with Overrun)

  3. #3

    Default

    Countercharge’s trigger is after friendly unit has been attacked, overrun’s trigger is when you destroy a unit with melee attack (implied after attack has been resolved).
    for me countercharge and overrun are simultaneous and you are the active player, so you can decide what happen first.
    overrun first, then countercharge and finaly swift retreat

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sine Luce View Post
    Countercharge’s trigger is after friendly unit has been attacked, overrun’s trigger is when you destroy a unit with melee attack (implied after attack has been resolved).
    for me countercharge and overrun are simultaneous and you are the active player, so you can decide what happen first.
    overrun first, then countercharge and finaly swift retreat

    Quick comment: active player does not decide "what happens first" in that scenario.
    Active player cannot choose that not-active players effect would happen first, active player must resolve it's own effects first (in the order of her/his choosing, but ONLY from her/his simultaneous effects, not other players effects).

  5. #5

    Default

    Overrun replaces surge forth which happens after all the other tactic cards are played. In this scenario, your unit is finally disengaged (because of the retreat) when the surge forth happens. So you can surge forth and so charge with overrun. The problem being that so much things happened between the destruction of a unité and the surge worth makes it totally illogical.

  6. #6

    Default

    Ok overrun replace surge forth but the trigger to play overrun is when enemy unit is destroyed, I understand this trigger like : after attack has been completed if the enemy unit is destroyed.... so simultaneous with countercharge
    i can be mistaken, English isn’t my first langage, someone can clarify when overrun’s trigger happens cause « that is the question »

  7. #7

    Default

    Overrun trigger (when to play) is at "Unit destroyed". That trigger happens inside the attack. The attack could not have completed yet, as you need to first resolve the unit destruction (including possible outcomes from that destruction happening). Only after that, attack is completed.

    Overrun effect is resolved after it is played, but its visible effects (performing the Overrun charge) change future, and do not happen immediately: it changes the behaviour of the Free Maneuver from Surge Forth, which will happen (sometimes far, far) in future, not when triggered and resolved.

    Then, when Surge Forth finally happens, after attack is completed, and all possible other "after attack" things have been triggered and resolved (like mentioned Countercharge and its outcome), you get the Overrun effect, which you played (sometimes long, long) while ago.
    Now you check if it is legal to do anymore, e.g. if you are actually unengaged anymore and are there any targets to resolve it and so on. Effect was anyway triggered back then when you played it, cannot get your card/order back.

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