"Night Gathers" and "Last Stand" Interactions and other similar cards.
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: "Night Gathers" and "Last Stand" Interactions and other similar cards.

  1. #1

    Default "Night Gathers" and "Last Stand" Interactions and other similar cards.

    Unit A has "Night Gathers" at 3 ranks. Unit A attacks Unit B and kills it through a panic test when it had 2 wounds. Opponent plays "Last Stand" on Unit B. I tell my opponent they take 3 hits which can cause Unit B to die again therefore nullifying the attack from "Last stand". My opponent says Unit B no longer has any wounds and is just making an attack so "Night Gathers" effectively does nothing.

    How does this interaction work? Do they take the 3 hits, and if so how many models does opponents unit still have for this effect to kill Unit B. Or does Unit B make a phantom attack like my opponent says?



    Similar cards are : "Overgrowth" VS: "It Shall Not End Until My Death!" "Good Dying"

  2. #2

    Default

    Ok, couple things here:

    1. Unit can't "die again". It's already dead, it has 0 Wounds remaining. Last Stand says before being removed, it makes 1 Attack.
    2. The unit can't suffer any more wounds, it doesn't have any to lose. Again, the unit has been destroyed, period.
    3. Last Stand states they use their highest Attack Die Value. It doesn't care about anything else.
    4. The "phantom attack" you're referring to is the effect of Last Stand.

    As for your question about similar cards, the answer is different, because as you said, these are similar cards, but they are not the same.

    Both resolve pretty much the same as Last Stand, with the exception that they state if they destroy the enemy they remain in play. This is where the important differences happen. With Last Stand, the unit is gone, there is nothing that will prevent that from happening. With the other two, there is an effect that can keep them in play: them destroying the enemy. With all three of these cards however at the timing of Night Gathers dealing wounds (before attack dice are rolled) the unit has zero wounds left to lose. The primary difference though is that It Shall Not End and Good Dying can restore the unit to a non-destroyed state, but this is well past the point where the Hits from Night Gathers would have been dealt.

  3. #3

    Default

    Another one is Mag the Mighty's on death effect vs. Horrific Visage.

    Alisser, I definitely disagree with your take.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hecaton View Post
    Another one is Mag the Mighty's on death effect vs. Horrific Visage.

    Alisser, I definitely disagree with your take.

    Ok, well you can disagree, but I stated my reasoning and the rules back up everything I've said. You can't destroy a unit that's already been destroyed, and you can't reduce something that is already at 0 Wounds any further. I'm not sure what else you would be disagreeing with.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    Ok, well you can disagree, but I stated my reasoning and the rules back up everything I've said. You can't destroy a unit that's already been destroyed, and you can't reduce something that is already at 0 Wounds any further. I'm not sure what else you would be disagreeing with.
    The latter. For the same reason that if you play What is Dead May Never Die on a unit when it dies from damage it can still die from panic.

  6. #6

    Default

    What is Dead May Never Die stops the unit from being destroyed, then it gets destroyed by a Panic Test. The same would occur with It Shall Not End and Good Dying, because of the timing of the test. The other effects occur much earlier in resolution and, as I said above, at that point they're at 0 Wounds. By the time the panic test would resolve they are at 1-3 remaining wounds.

  7. #7

    Default

    2. The unit can't suffer any more wounds, it doesn't have any to lose. Again, the unit has been destroyed, period.
    By the way - Stark Swordsman can use they order Stark Fury isnt they?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alliser Thorne View Post
    What is Dead May Never Die stops the unit from being destroyed, then it gets destroyed by a Panic Test. The same would occur with It Shall Not End and Good Dying, because of the timing of the test. The other effects occur much earlier in resolution and, as I said above, at that point they're at 0 Wounds. By the time the panic test would resolve they are at 1-3 remaining wounds.
    Yeah that's not clear at all. It could use a clarification.

  9. #9

    Default

    I agree with Alliser.

    There are two kinds of effects:
    - the last attack action performed by a destroyed unit (before being removed), so no hits, Panic Tests, and etc.
    - a unit which should be destroyed but which is not (and survives with a wound or 1D3 wounds)

    In the latter case, the combat action must be brought to the end. This has already been clarified here : a matter of life or death

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack006 View Post
    I agree with Alliser.

    There are two kinds of effects:
    - the last attack action performed by a destroyed unit (before being removed), so no hits, Panic Tests, and etc.
    - a unit which should be destroyed but which is not (and survives with a wound or 1D3 wounds)

    In the latter case, the combat action must be brought to the end. This has already been clarified here : a matter of life or death
    Nah, when a unit attacks you still have to resolve all triggers, like Horrific Visage.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hecaton View Post
    Nah, when a unit attacks you still have to resolve all triggers, like Horrific Visage.
    I wish you good luck.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Privacy Policy  |   Terms and Conditions  |   Contact Us  |   The Legion


Copyright © 2001-2018 CMON Inc.

-->