"Sabotage and Subvert" and "Coordination Tactics"
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Thread: "Sabotage and Subvert" and "Coordination Tactics"

  1. #1

    Default "Sabotage and Subvert" and "Coordination Tactics"

    Hello.
    If I attach the new Mance Rayder to an enemy unit and the other player uses Coordination Tactics and copy the abilities of the unit in wich is my Mance, do the tactic card also copy my Mance? And if so, can I use Sabotage and Subvert with the Copy?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azazel91 View Post
    Hello.
    If I attach the new Mance Rayder to an enemy unit and the other player uses Coordination Tactics and copy the abilities of the unit in wich is my Mance, do the tactic card also copy my Mance? And if so, can I use Sabotage and Subvert with the Copy?
    Influence abilities are not copied by Coordination Tactics. They're not an ability on the unit.

    EDIT: this is not relevant to this case.
    Last edited by Hecaton; 05-10-2022 at 10:11 PM.

  3. #3

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    The Sabotage and Subvert ability is no influence

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azazel91 View Post
    The Sabotage and Subvert ability is no influence
    Whoops, yup, was confusing it for the NCU. Yeah, it will copy.

  5. #5

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    Ok thanks. And can I use the ability? Becouse I can not remove Mance when he is only a Copy?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azazel91 View Post
    Ok thanks. And can I use the ability? Becouse I can not remove Mance when he is only a Copy������?
    It's a grey area, and it'd be nice to get some confirmation on it, but my take would be it doesn't work because you can't remove the model in question. The "Camp Followers" ability would still trigger if the unit activated that turn, however.

  7. #7

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    No you cannot.

    Yor opponent plays tactic card at start of turn
    You have opportunity to use Mance.

    Your opponent resolves Coordination Tactic
    You cannot ues copied Mance from other unit as time declare his effect is gone (trigger "at start of turn")

  8. #8

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    Coordination tactics triggers at the start of the turn, then the opponent would have an opportunity to trigger Mances ability and remove the model. The coordination tactic effect lasts for the entire remainder of the turn. It’s still the start of the turn at that point (nothing has activated yet) so technically the subterfuge ability could trigger if it wasn’t for the (remove this model) wording. Since you can’t remove a mance model on the unit the ability doesn’t do anything.
    Last edited by Getsugen; 05-12-2022 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #9

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    Start of turn trigger is happens only once )
    After both players resolve their effects "Start of turn" ends

    Start of Turn: Sometimes, players will have effects that specifically trigger at the start of a turn. These effects are resolved before anything else on a player’s turn.

  10. #10

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    Right but nothing is stopping them from triggering multiple start of turn effects, as long as it’s not an order or tactics card. I.e you can theoretically trigger as many as you want. For example if you have multiple Lannister turncoats you can trigger them all on the same turn as well as a tactic card or order. I guess in the above example it would be doing another trigger after the resolution phase so I get what you mean I think.
    Last edited by Getsugen; 05-12-2022 at 07:37 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getsugen View Post
    Coordination tactics triggers at the start of the turn, then the opponent would have an opportunity to trigger Mances ability and remove the model. The coordination tactic effect lasts for the entire remainder of the turn. It’s still the start of the turn at that point (nothing has activated yet) so technically the subterfuge ability could trigger if it wasn’t for the (remove this model) wording. Since you can’t remove a mance model on the unit the ability doesn’t do anything.
    Incorrect. By the time Coordination Tactics resolves, the "start of turn" trigger has already passed. It provides a specific exception for Orders on Coordination Tactics, but Sabotage and Subvert is not an order.

  12. #12

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    Right Valenae clarified that. So I guess this means the same logic would apply to Qhorin Halfhand in nightswatch. I.e once opponent resolves coordination tactics you can’t decide to use your sacrifice for the cause effect. Other examples: Senior builder with start of round effect, Tychos heal once per game, eddard stark price of honor etc. basically if any order/card is resolved you are locked out of those abilities until next turn…
    Last edited by Getsugen; 05-12-2022 at 08:40 PM.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getsugen View Post
    Right Valenae clarified that. So I guess this means the same logic would apply to Qhorin Halfhand in nightswatch. I.e once opponent resolves coordination tactics you can’t decide to use your sacrifice for the cause effect. Other examples: Senior builder with start of round effect, Tychos heal once per game, eddard stark price of honor etc. basically if any order/card is resolved you are locked out of those abilities until next turn…
    Correct. You could use Sacrifice for the Cause immediately after your opponent plays Coordination Tactics, though, before they resolve it.

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