War is Coming

[montka]

We shall go on to the end;
we shall fight in France;
we shall fight on the seas and oceans;
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be;
we shall fight on the beaches;
we shall fight on the landing grounds;
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets;
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old
​

This, as you are certain to know already, is the speech of Winston Churchill that roused Britain to defend herself against the Nazis in World War Two.

Like Winston Churchill, I too am a sufferer of bipolar disorder, swinging from staggering confidence and elation to shattering lows.
But this speech sums up how I feel tonight after I realized the purpose of my life now, which is to live for fun.

See this hobby, which was born here in Britain, and the fun we have with it, is our Island. And we must fight to defend it.

Living for fun is what I am here to do, and what could be more fun than starting a miniatures company that slays the giant, Games Workshop, once and for all?
That feeds creativity instead of stifling it?
That rewards the talent that founds it instead of driving it off?
That playtests the f*cking rules?

I haven't got the talent to achieve it alone, but I have the vision and the belief, and the time and 100hr insomniac working week to make it happen.
Here on Coominiornot, we have the talent to make the greatest art the industry has ever seen.
We have creative friends who are even now writing comics and stories; humour; satire; role play, that show a talent that will blossom with backing.
We have a little cynicism; but we can work on that

I know that we can all be part of something magnificent; something sublime and fun. Something that'll last forever, or until the robots of the apocalypse are irradiate us all and repopulate the earth from clones.

I know that if we stand together, and collect our talent, in the space of a few years we will be standing over the ashes of Games Workshop, with out own great company. A company that is what it should be:

ethical
inspired
creative
communal
and did I mention:
METAL AS F*CK

This is where it starts brothers.

 

[Kalidane]

Go on...


Do the death-robots have to be a part of the business plan? I'm not so keen on that part

 

[bensnewman]

I dunno... Death-robots could be a great faction
Could be the first 2 armies
Death-robots vs People who don't want to be irradicated and brought back as clones

 

[montka]

Death robots are part of the first game XD
but they're on our side
It's the flying alien combat walkers you want to watch out for. No wonder our platoon is so edgy...

The morning after I wrote this post, I sat next to a quiet lad at college named Cain, and asked what he was doodling.
He opened a sketch pad and showed me an immaculate set of drawings, including a hyperdetailed Halo mothership.
You can guess who is working on the concept sketches!

Thank the moirae...

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

I am bagsying the wolf armies. dfb's Hairy Hounds of Death. The models will be giant and my box set will come with a free hammer so that when you lose you can simply smash your opponents models to pieces the easy way....

dfb

 

[montka]

I'm listening... Though this is a sci-fi game.
Were you born in the North by any chance?
'Northern rules' means you get to stamp on your opponents general when you win

 

[the Infadel]

I will be following this thread to see where it goes.

 

[Talion]

I came up with a movie idea a couple of years ago which would make a possible good game.

The background of it was the Heaven's and Hell had decided to go to war......mankind was caught in the middle.

There were 3 factions.

The forces of Hell - with Lucifer and the Gods of the Seven Sins (8 gods with mini factions)

Humans - in my movie it was modern times, but could be set a littel further in the future.

Forces of heaven - the various gods we have have Christian God, Buddha etc.....

always thought of going somewhere with this, neither have the time nor talent......I'm not a bad rule writer though.

 

[bensnewman]

Always a bit worried that the more gods based on current religions you use, the more people may get offended and may try to burn you at the stake for heresy.
Sounds a good idea though, just might be better to use roman, greek or egyptian gods (Gods always seemed to do a hell of a lot more in mythology anyway)

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

I'm listening... Though this is a sci-fi game.
Were you born in the North by any chance?
'Northern rules' means you get to stamp on your opponents general when you win

No, I'm a southerner. Those northerners are a right bunch of softies lol.

Sci-fi or no sci-fi, werewolves fit any scenario very easily. Some government experiment gone wrong creating a virulent strain of lycanthropy... easily done.

And Talion, using the stories contained within current religions will always be a winning idea for a background. Sounds good to me..... Tom Cruise is president of the USA and scientology has become the state religion with all citizens brainwashed robots blindly following the mad ramblings of Cruise without question - but there exists pockets of resistance led by schwarzenegger, stallone and Sarah Michelle Gellar amongst others. And the people are ready to rise......

dfb

dfb

 

[montka]

@Talion

Funny you should mention rules writing.

One of the fundamental things about this vision is this: the game will be balanced, to the most perfect possible equilibrium before it is released the market, and before people pay their hard earned money to be able to play it.

If it takes three years to playtest it to the point of perfection and raw addictive gameplay, it will be a good three years!

Imagine a free beta rules set, with amateur but good self cast pewter models available to buy, leading up to a full release version once we know everyone is hooked on the game, for the game itself. That's when to launch into the backstory and art commissions in full flow, having made a bazillion connections and new artist friends through the gaming groups we test with around the UK, or maybe even USA too. Can't think of a more fun project to nurture!

To have the input of every intellectual gamer, and process what they're saying, and their feedback, will be satisfying, but it will nurture the games culture people have been craving for so long.

People thought it would arrive through the internet, when hundreds of people play online together. But in a games room, you have real social contact, real friends, real laughs, real beer too if you're lucky.

Its time to get it right and deliver a game with fantasy escapism, plus fun, plus completely fair balance with reward of strategy, audacity, forward thinking, outwitting, feigning, and fluid reactions to unforseen problems. That you can bet money on, a play in a world tournament because it's so balanced.

 

[Talion]

I saw it as covering all the main religions......none of these silly ones, the long standing religions.

The human civilisation have nothing really to do with the war......and are on no-ones side, we are just in the way, and fending for ourselves.

So our enemies are both the good and bad gods.

The gods would probably not be used in the game, but would send their minions. To put some of it in context with GW gods.

Nurgle : would be like gluttony

Slannesh: could be vanity

Khorne: possibly wrath

but could go to town on the others deamons and followers

Same for the good Gods - taking all the most noted images of their heavenly armies.


@ Montka - all you need is two minis and work from their, movement, basic shooting and fighting....once you have these then I think you need a story to find direction of what the game should be and how it would flow. I like rules that are simple but also have an RPG element....currently mixing rules from various game sources to make a quick but realistic wargame, where you can pick up a barrel and throw it, where you run into a building and it can be shot apart around you, Yet doesn't need you to look through 20 pages of book to resolve the action. It's slow but i'm starting to get somewhere.

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

I would develop a game where you could have a set scenario providing an advantage to the winning side in a bigger campaign. All of the scenarios have knock on effects towards final victory. Like victory in one campaign would allow a player to control fuel supplies and thus maybe reduce the number of vehicles fielded by the enemy player or make them more expensive to the player. Some of these scenarios could be replayed with the former loser attempting to retake the position so regain the upper hand. This would add alot more long term strategy. So develop something with a set massive campaign but also do it so that players can create their own campaign very easily as well if they wish to and of course if people still want a simple single game nothing is stopping them from that either. Fighting one off battles is a little boring after a while I would imagine. Giving the players a big hex map with an objective on each would be way more interesting.

dfb

 

[Mourner]

Why not build it in modules...

Oone basic module covering rules for movement, basic melee combat and organising a battle.
Standard modules for:
Ranged weapons
Sci-Fi weapons
Vehicles
Mounts
Grenades
Psycology
Advanced Weapon Rules
Advanced Combat
Basic Campaigns
Advanced Campaigns (as DogFaced suggested)
Buildings
Anything really

Fanmade modules with basicly anything you didn't come up with yourself.
Make it an internet fanbased project, with a select groups making the final judgment calls about balance.
And something like an official website and "Offically Approved" stamps etc.

Wanna play a game?
Just invite a friend, bring some minis, pick you're modules and have fun.
Why bring the entire book if you only need half of it?

You could easily spread the gamesystem by making it adaptable so anyone could use any models.
BUT, then anyone could use any models to use your gamesystem p)

This would also enable a dual approach, you could focus on the game first.
And give you time to look for great artists to build cool models, without being limited to one setting either...

Great idea though, keep me interested and I'll participate

Mourner

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

Mourners got it right, that would be the best way to do it.

dfb

 

[Talion]

Why not build it in modules...

Oone basic module covering rules for movement, basic melee combat and organising a battle.
Standard modules for:
Ranged weapons
Sci-Fi weapons
Vehicles
Mounts
Grenades
Psycology
Advanced Weapon Rules
Advanced Combat
Basic Campaigns
Advanced Campaigns (as DogFaced suggested)
Buildings
Anything really

Fanmade modules with basicly anything you didn't come up with yourself.
Make it an internet fanbased project, with a select groups making the final judgment calls about balance.
And something like an official website and "Offically Approved" stamps etc.

Wanna play a game?
Just invite a friend, bring some minis, pick you're modules and have fun.
Why bring the entire book if you only need half of it?

You could easily spread the gamesystem by making it adaptable so anyone could use any models.
BUT, then anyone could use any models to use your gamesystem p)

This would also enable a dual approach, you could focus on the game first.
And give you time to look for great artists to build cool models, without being limited to one setting either...

Great idea though, keep me interested and I'll participate

Mourner

The only problem with this is you could have multiple books you'd need to read through for various situations, which could end up messy.

with the rules system I'm working on.....it takes basically what you said, but applies it to cards.....ie Weapons would come in a pack or cards.....each card having the stats for a particular weapon...this way you only take the weapon cards out that you are using in the game, and each player may have the same or different set of weapon cards (sell more packs)

Seperate deck for sci-fi and fantasy weapons......the same would apply to forces each troop type would have a card with a basic profile. You then combine the card for the troop type and for the weapon, shielding etc....to make up the abilities of that individual trooper.

E.g. Space Marine Troop card (standard unarmed trooper in power armour), Weapon Card bolter (strength, ammo etc), Weapon card Frag grenade (strength, area effect) etc.... you might have 100 of this troop type but only need the three cards to use them all

different marine might be the same but with Lascannon use the same cards but the Lascannon weapon card instead......if this is all your army is made up of then 4 cards to play the game.

Taking the same cards into an RPG scenario.....skirmish battle where you play as one marine, you use the cards to show what equipment you are carrying and the trooper card is your basic profile. won't need seperate rules, just a GM to monitor what is realisitc or not.

 

[montka]

Thanks guys.

I can see a paradox to be overcome here since losing oneself in the fantasy world is a vital part of the games culture, so the game needs to be immersive. You need to be the one who decides what the characters are doing, and the dice rolls need to reflect these actions.

However I want the game to be so fast and easy to learn that it doesn't need much learning. I want the rules to be something that are learnt within the first few games. I want the rules to be so tight that tournament style play has no friction or debate over rules. It's all clear cut.

Are these two objectives reconcilable I wonder?

 

[dogfacedboy uk1]

With a little imagination - yes.

Dfb

 

[Mourner]

The only problem with this is you could have multiple books you'd need to read through for various situations, which could end up messy.

with the rules system I'm working on.....it takes basically what you said, but applies it to cards.....ie Weapons would come in a pack or cards.....each card having the stats for a particular weapon...this way you only take the weapon cards out that you are using in the game, and each player may have the same or different set of weapon cards (sell more packs)

Seperate deck for sci-fi and fantasy weapons......the same would apply to forces each troop type would have a card with a basic profile. You then combine the card for the troop type and for the weapon, shielding etc....to make up the abilities of that individual trooper.

E.g. Space Marine Troop card (standard unarmed trooper in power armour), Weapon Card bolter (strength, ammo etc), Weapon card Frag grenade (strength, area effect) etc.... you might have 100 of this troop type but only need the three cards to use them all.

different marine might be the same but with Lascannon use the same cards but the Lascannon weapon card instead......if this is all your army is made up of then 4 cards to play the game.

Taking the same cards into an RPG scenario.....skirmish battle where you play as one marine, you use the cards to show what equipment you are carrying and the trooper card is your basic profile. won't need seperate rules, just a GM to monitor what is realisitc or not.

I didn't say "build it in books"...
I said Modules...
These modules can be anything, from a card system to a full color book.

The easiest would probably be a small leaflet or something...
About A5-sized, preferably with a binder to secures them in.

Just take whatever modules you're gonna need, and leave the rest at home.
Or take em all, and only use what you need.

I can see that card system getting really getting quite disorderly, with players messing up several neat stacks of troops to find a single rule.
Plus, you'd need several stack for troops, just because they have a different weapon.

I think one module with ALL sci-fi weapons (from a specific race) would work best.
With a short intro laying down the ground rules and background.<br>And more advanced rules detailed per catagory.
E.g. Sci-fi weapons; Space Marine Weapons: these are SM weapons
Ranged weapons;
*Boltgun: this is what a boltgun does
*Plasma gun: this is what a plasma gun does
Melee weapons;
*Powersword: this is what a power sword does
*Thunder hammer: this is what a thunder hammer does

@Montka
I'd say the first thing to concentrate on would be the game system itself, get that right and you can build any setting you want around it.

The setting you choose, and the background you create are just ways to draw unsuspecting players deeper into your web.
Getting these right however is paramount... And probably one of the hardest parts...

-Mourner

 

[Dragonsreach]

I'm always interersted in discussions about developing games/games systems from several points of veiw, so here's a few thoughts. (Although please bare in mind that out of 20 something years of gaming {again} the amount of games I've won can be counted on two hands with fingers spare).

Small Games are Fun, two to three squads in Secrets of the Third Reich is a good gaming level (30-35 figures). That allows for enough flexibility to run for an hour or two and still have enough of a body count to keep the table top undertakers happy. Malifaux to me, has hit a good combination of size against game play.
Complexity spoils games, The old K.I.S.S acronym works really well with games. Keep the mechanics quick, easy to learn and importantly easy to reference, while I like SOTR the rule book is not the best laid out for referencing. Having to constantly refer back to a book because something is too complex to remember becomes frustrating.
Keep the "Special Rules" down to things like "Digging in for cover!"
Killing machines, If the games good you don't need Uber Tough Characters, hard to kill Psycho heros able to be cutting their way through an entire army. This may sell more of this character, but destroys the pleasure of a game. Ditto for having Uber tough weapons which cut through anything in their path, that might be good for the player who is using it but the receiving end Sucks. To paraphrase Frederick Forsyth "No matter how many Bombs, Tanks or Artillery you throw at an enemy, it comes down to some poor sod with something just a step up from a sharpened stick to go and take the last 100 yards!". Large scale games really need to be about the P.B.I., not the Hero.
Balance; what's the point in making one army so much stronger than any other? Each should have a balance of capabilities and drawbacks which enhance the playability, not stomp all over an opponent.

All in all while all this is just my thoughts on this I still think that first and foremost the whole thing should be Fun.