Baratheon utilities?

[xAngryMedicx]

Hey all,

Had my fifth game of asoiaf recently and noticed baratheon specifically Renlys side, is lacking alot of utilities as far as the tactics deck when compared to other factions. I've played 40k competitively and usually pretty decent at picking out synergies among units, tactics, etc.

Playing Baratheon it seems we have a couple lists that work in unison however, much of the model line as well as tactics cards and commanders seem useless. I'm wondering if I'm missing something or Baratheon is just the struggle bus as in we just have to fight an uphill battle against most armies and in most game modes?

Current list: Renly or Loras as commander, x3 Rose Knights, x2 Wardens, x2 NCUs Margery and Courtney. Looking to possibly drop a unit of rose knights for Champs of the Stag for mobility.

[Mein Fury]

Don’t worry, the issue you’re encountering is neither uniquely yours, nor is it specific to Renly’s side of the faction. As a Stannis player, I can tell you the grass isn’t much greener on this side, and actually I’d have to say that the Renly camp actually performs better given that it tends to lean into the faction’s overall theme of attrition more so than Stannis, who skews more aggressive. The Renly commanders as well as the NCUs are overall better than the ones Stannis has access to, which counts for a lot, though sadly, both sides benefit more from Neutrals way more than they should by rights. You almost can’t go wrong nearly or fully maxing out your 50% Neutral allotment, and at present, nearly every army you build should include a minimum of 20% Neutral points. These could include: Stormcrow Archers, Bronn, Daarrio Naharis, Flayed Men, Bastards Girls, Hedge Knights, Tycho Nestoris, Petyr Baelish, just to name the most popular options. I’m not thrilled about the prevalence of Bolton units, but that’s the state of the game right now. These units are just plain good. They’re proven performers partly because they care more about tactics zones than cards which is a better deal for us.

As you’ve discovered, our tactics deck is pretty weak compared to the other decks. You’ll notice every other faction has or two scary cards that opponents dread seeing on the table. Not really the case with Baratheons. We don’t have any truly scary cards that are universally intimidating, so opponents don’t have to concern themselves with what cards might be in our hand. It just doesn’t really matter. “Ours is the Fury” is our go-to offensive card, and can hurt, but must be played wisely on a pivotal attack action to ensure greatest impact. It’s not so special or powerful that it can make any attack successful. The only other card that certain opponents have to watch out for is “Final Strike.” Tbh, I’ve come to see this card as very swingy and situational, which means it has a tendency to want to clog up a spot in your hand waiting and hoping for the opportune moment to pop out. If this moment arises, it can be awesome (especially against low armor/high damage units), but I’ve had mixed results with it personally. All the other cards though are pretty weak and have minimal impact on the outcome of a game. They’re sort of plug and play for ease of use, in terms of what unit will be best served by which card, but just expect your opponent to work through his hand more consistently/effectively than you (though eldon and courtnay can help a little). Here’s hoping the impending rules revisions address the deck as well as our units. I’m comforted by the positive changes that were made to the Starks, so we’ll see how we make out with it.

As for the army list, I would consider a more diverse army. 3x Rose Knights and 2 Wardens is like 2 wardens with 3 elite wardens. An all-infantry list that while tanky, is very slow and lacks the tools for area control, rapid repositioning, or preemptive attacks. It’s an army that is almost entirely reactive, which I’ve found is rarely rewarded in this game. So I would personally diversify the list by dropping at least 1 rose knight unit, and 1 warden unit. You don’t need 5x speed-4 units. Consider the aforementioned Neutral units, or Sentinels. If you free up a point you can add Daario to a rose knight unit to boost their offensive output. You’ll have enough healing opportunities that they shouldn’t feel the downside of his ability much. Alternatively you can put Daario or Bronn in Sentinels. Either can be a decent combo. As for the champions of the stag, I think you have the right idea, though that’s another semi defensive unit, albeit one with more mobility than the rest of the army. They’re not as awful as some claim, and they are getting better soon withbthe update, but I think you’d be better served by Hedge Knights in the cavalry slot. Easy 7pt swap with the Rose Knights. If you want to stay on theme, then you can wait for the 6 or 7 point Highgarden lancer unit coming out in the near future. Also once they release, it could be cool to swap out 1 of the 2 wardens for Highgarden pikemen. Then you’d have a deeper tool chest, while still retaining a core around double rose knights. Hope that helps!

[xAngryMedicx]

Hello! I appreciate all the feedback. I will be building a Stannis list at some point even though as you stated the grass isn't much greener. I'd like to get a Baratheon core list functioning decent without neutrals. As stated quite a few other armies can do this no problem. I've been experimenting with lists a bit more with Renlys side to get a better idea of how each unit should be utilized. One major misplaced was the first time I used thorn watch.

The thorn watch are suited to being treated as a harassing melee unit with their ranged option as a utility attack. Add a master warden, let them be charged neutralizing any enemy charge benefits, swing, fallback, auto heal, repeat. Definitely a waste if treated like a traditional ranged unit and worth the points with a 6inch base movement in an army where the calvary is 12inch marching including the maneuver. Champions of the stag as you mentioned are ok but will be even better with the update.

Similar to Rose Knights champions of the stag have alot of durability. They were able to hold Kal Drogo for two turns while being shot by the targeryan horse archers. I did have to pump some healing into them, but with a buff on the way for remaining in combat I'm looking forward to using them more often.

A mounted version of Loras would be great if they decide to make one. Until then I'm jealous of Stannis and the dragonstone nobles. I'm looking forward to getting the Stannis side at some point and will post more lists, comments, opinions, and I'm decent at admitting when something is overpowered. Again, thanks for the reply. Ours is the fury.

[LazZzyBeaR]

Please tell me what rumors there are about changes in the champions of the stag. And what changes are waiting for us in general and when?