Those Unwanted Streaks!

[J2FcM]

Hello all!
I come seeking advice in the world of mini-painting. I have only painted a total of about 20 mini\'s around 2 years ago. Now I am re-starting the hobby. I have done some research and practice, as well as read over the Magma-Trax article time and time again.

NOW!
for my question.

I am very interested in the smooth blending of colors to the quality of Maga-Trax (I know there are a million great blends out there, but hopefully everyone knows Magma-Trax).

Now if I understand correctly, wet-layering is blending with translucent layers of paint, and blending is taking 2 wet colors and mixing them together ON the model.

I have been practicig the wet-layering technique.
My practice pieces are Tau gun drones.
I\'ve noticed a problem though, that I never used to encounter and I believe its because the gun drone disk has a large flat surface.

STREAKING!
Even my black basecoat had streaks.
But anyways, I continued onward, and did about 12-18 wet-layers starting at chaos black, mixing in shadow grey, finally adding in bleached bone. From 2 feet away it looks cool! But up close, I can see the minor layering transitions, and little pointy streaks where each stroke took place.
I use GW paints (entire paint set for 86$ so I had to). The paint layering I attempted looks like the left half of this:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/painting/tanks/images/8b.jpg

I use a dropper with Future Acrylic and water, I tried to get the mix 15%-25% Future.

Before I paint each layer, i put the brush to a paper towel to allow excess water\\paint to come off, and by the time I finish painting each layer, the paint is practically dry.

Also, at the end of each stroke there is a wet build up of paint (which serves nicely for highlighting).

Now, is it my paint dillution that is making the streaks? My brush\\paint load? Or do I need to create a very very thin black ink wash to eliminate my streaks?

FINALLY!
What is the best way to post pictures, as I would like my show my previously painted mini\'s as well as giving visual aid to my problems.

thanks for ANY advice!

 

[airhead]

first, welcome to the forums.

Second, you got your terms backwards. Wet blending is putting wet on wet to blend the colors. Layering is adding a thinned layer of paint on an existing (dry) layer.

Streaks in they layers can be caused by several things:
* poor quality brush
* too small a brush
* poor quality paint ( you said you were using GW paints - pretty good brand IMHO)
* wrong reducer - what are you thinning your paints with?
* too much reducer - the pigment comes out of suspension.
* not enough reducer
* paint & reducer not mixed well
* too much paint applied at a layer (from your description of puddles of paint, I suspect this is one of your problems)

There are some excellent articles here on layering and blending.
http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/

Finally, if I was trying to do a fade on a tank like the pic you showed, I\'d break out my airbrushes. (which is what I suspect they used).

 

[J2FcM]

Thanks for the reply and welcome.

I wasn\'t specific when I said wet-layering was blending of translucent paint, I meant over dry layers. But yes, I am painting thinned out wet layers of paint over previously dried paint. No actual blending.

I am using a standard GW brush, and on the face of a Tau Gun Drone disk, it takes probably takes AT least 12 strokes to go across the surface.
My GW paint is brand new.
I use my water mixed with Future Acrylic, from everything I\'ve read that helps to smooth out the paint.

I am sure the tank picture I use, IS airbrushed... but I am trying to learn how to wet layer on a large surface before I hit the small surface. And hopefully conquer this annoying streak problems.

I\'ve also checked out many many articles on CMON, but haven\'t read them all, and I will post a pic of my Tau drone so maybe that will give a idea to someone as to my streaks.
thanks again

 

[Ritual]

Layering IS difficult to get right on large, smooth areas. I always use wet-blending is such cases and then apply the final-most highlights with additional layers.

 

[Thecadian]

try giving the rough edge of colour a wash with a mid tone.Should even it out abit

james

 

[J2FcM]

What is the difference between applying a wash, and a thin layer of paint? Is a wash just applied more liberally?

In the case of the streaks on my Tau drones, should I take something like chaos black and water it down 20:1, and then just dump it over all my layers?
Or do I apply it lightly the way you would layer?

 

[MathewBaich]

a wash is like colored water and a thin layer is not quite that translucent. And when layering, I always re-apply the last layer and then I immediately apply the next. Welcome to the forums.

 

[J2FcM]

Hmmm,

In an attempt to remove my paint brush streaks, I\'ve ended up with a semi chalky, more water stained look. I did this by applying thin thin thin layers. What hope is there at this stage?
Is a (fork tailed =)) tank brush a better option for paint the Tau gun drone disk?

 

[MathewBaich]

Ok if you see a streak before it dries *lightly* touch it with a free finger to lift off a little paint.

 

[J2FcM]

Glaze vs Wash

I realize finally, that a wash is meant to go into the nooks and crannys of the mini, while a glaze is meant to retain color on the raised parts of the mini.

So my magic wash of water and Future Floor Wash, is better suited for... washes...

But should I be using it to paint, and make glazes?
How should I approach glazes vs washes?

 

[vincegamer]

Not that I\'m expert, but I\'ll put in my say.
FFF with water works to thin paint.
Whether you are thinning it for a glaze or for a wash is just a matter of how much you use compared to the paint. Washes use more thinning agent to the paint.
Generally.
Not necessarily.
You can do glazes just as thin as washes, you just have to do more layers.

The basic difference is in where you want the pigment to go. If you want it to go into the recesses, use a wash. If you want it to slightly tint the whole surface, use a glaze.

The real difference is how much you get in your brush. If you are doing a glaze you get less in the brush (draw more out on tissue before touching model). You want a wash to slide down into deep pockets. you want a glaze to stay put.

 

[krom1415]

Hi, I\'m not sufficently qualified to give you advice on the blending etc, but just would like to add this, if you live in a chalky water area, you might consider using distilled water instead of tap water.

Hope this helps

 

[Avelorn]

Glazes to fade out transitions between layers. Washes to shade or to pull the entire part you\'re painting together meaning lifting the shading and dulling the highlights but smoothing out all the transitions overall. Glazes can also be used to tint ant create effects like source lighting or mud effects.

Large flat surfaces are difficult with layering. It is a good idea for flat surfaces to use a relatively large brush. I presume you are using the magmatrax tutorials version of \"dragging\" paint. I would probably use that one too.. if not wetblending. Be sure to work towards an edge with that technique so that you have somewhere to get rid of the drop. Otherwise you need to feather it, meaning taking a moist brush and quickly fade the edges of the drop to smooth them out (you could of course suck it up with a brush too to get rid of it). Remember that you often need to repeat each layer several times. And finally be absolutely sure that everything is dry before applying the next layer.. or else you can make a small mess (from own experience).

Another technique I\'ve been using more and more gives you a bit more control but is slower. It is a sort of layering but instead of instantly trying to get a good blend you let there be a line first but making sure that the layers cover. Secondly you mix the base + highlight 50:50 and paint over the transition with a layer paint. You should now have two more lines from the transition, but less harsh ones. Secondly repeat the process but now with a 50:50 highlight + previous mix and 50:50 base + previous mix. If you have used thin paint the new transitions should be very faint and could easily be taken care of with a few glazes of the different mixes you\'ve used.

The great advantage is that you have absolute control over what colour is where which means that fixing errors are easy. A second advantage is on the same line. You might perhaps have noticed that some paints dry in a slightly different lightness than when it\'s diluted. I\'ve had large problems with my greys.. making it hard to do good blending as it looks good when you apply the paint but crap when it dries. (even wrote a blues tune ). I solved some of that problem with this technique as I kept track on the mixes and not mixing by eye.

 

[J2FcM]

Thanks for the responses.

I am trying to replicate the MagmaTrax wet-layering, that is for sure.
The wet-blending sounds to intricate, especially with my time constraints for practice.
I\'ve taken some poor quality photo\'s, hopefully those might show some tell-tale mistakes I am making.
I\'m currently attempting to paint a Tau Stealth Suit, with the intent to strip it, since I\'m sure it will not come out great first time around.
I have some pics of that too, I\'m already seeing the same old damn streaks, using shadow grey.
Another question, the Stealth Suit has many rounded surfaces and cracks in the armor, and I often find I am dragging my brush sideways, to line an armor crack, or to get the paint up to a raised surface. Is that improper?
My basecoat is also off of a wet palette which I made, and I felt that the paint was already about 1:1 thinned from the palette... so I took it straight from that.

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by J2FcM
... I often find I am dragging my brush sideways, to line an armor crack, or to get the paint up to a raised surface. Is that improper?

no. that is a technique we call edge painting. Laying the brush at an angle to and painting at right angles to just get the high spots with a layer.

Pics would help.

What brush are you using?

 

[J2FcM]

I\'m using a Citadel \"standard brush\". But its also like at least a year old and hasn\'t seen that much use. I\'m not sure how well I kept it clean when I did rarely use it... but it doesn\'t fork or have any stray hairs.

Also, I took a pic, I\'ll post it later... It seems I keep running into new difficulties as I try to re-kindle my hobby... finding 28mm miniature focus, and lighting...

Anywho, I\'m going to attempt once more to figure out how to lay down a smooth base coat after priming for a bit this evening. I\'m not sure I like what the wet-palette does to the paint.

 

[MathewBaich]

the problem I have with GW brushes is that the hairs flex and dont stay ridgid, especially with the fine detail brush. go to dickblick.com for very cheap W&N series 7 brushes, if you decide to get the W&N\'s, also get brush cleaner(I don\'t reccommend acetone)

 

[J2FcM]

Yes, I think I might just go to the store and pick up a W&N... I can\'t see how else I could screw up mixing paint\\thinner ratios... I think it might be either the brush, or paint load on the brush...
I\'ll check out some brushes today.

 

[Thecadian]

just a random idea you could try wet blending

james

 

[J2FcM]

Hmm, I found a wide variety of W&N brushes but no Series 7\'s at my local craft store...

are these the brushes:

http://www.dickblick.com/zz058/87/

I see round tipped brushes, and miniature brushes... What is the recommended size?