Beginer questions... =)

[El Matador]

Hello friends,

i am new to both the hobby and the forum and i have some questions that i think are important...

First of all i was really inspired by most of the work here at CMON especially by Vincent Huden and Sebastian Archer and decided to start painting. I started out by reading some of the articles and realy thought i was all set to start painting and immediatly incountered my first problem embaressingly :redface:. I found that there are numerous articles excellantly wrote about glazing, feathering, blending, model prep and juicing ect however my problem was actually basecoating :redface: i have two different primers (citadel skull white and chaos black) however almost instantly after that i realised theres a \"gap\" for basecoating articles. Normally i would just put a median colour and then do a simple highlight and shade (i play the game quite alot and am used to painting armies ) however after reading a few articles im fairly certain this is what i should do only i should use a colour much closer to my highlighting colour?

I also tried out the juicing techneque that Sebastian Archer explained in an article and the difference was quite signifigant however somtimes it appeared almost dusty. It appeared to happen only with certain colours mostly blood red and white. Is this because of the paints or the way i am applying them?

Finaly on one of the three practises i started with a chaos black under coat and attemped to slightly tint the surface however 150 coats of scab read later i was left with an uneven coat. I had followed some of the tutorials and my paint was super dialuted ( around 30/1 water to paint) and ever time i put my brush in the water i wiped it off similar to dry brushing. Do you think this could be because of the brush i am using? At the moment it would be hard to distinguish it from a yard brush

For those who have made it to the bottom, thank you for reading any advice you give is appreciated, Thanks and Hello

 

[evil tendencies]

Welcome to the forums; it\'s always nice to see a new face around here.

As to your questions...I hate to say it, but I don\'t really know what you\'re asking.

You mentioned basecoating, so I\'ll tell you what I do and see if that helps. I usually use Citadel\'s chaos black primer for everything I do. It has adhesive qualities that I like, and is easy to find in stores. It doesn\'t glom up details is you use it right, and gives my work a darker, grittier feel that I simply happen to prefer.

I use the white primer on occasion, but usually only on models where I\'m going to paint a lot of skin tones. You have to be careful about the citadel white spray because it has a tendency to go on \"dusty\" if you spray it too lightly, and can rub off very easily when it does.

If this isn\'t what you needed, try asking again.

 

[Hinton]

Welcome to the hobby and the forums.

It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of the basics; after all, you did mention that you had painted armies.

For me, basecoating and primering minis are two different things. Primering is the very first coat of paint you put on; either white, black or gray (you mentioned using Citadel\'s Chaos Black Primer). This basically gives you a good surface for your paint to adhere to.

Basecoating is the first coat of paint that you put on after the primer. This is usually done to \"block in\" colors. It can be your shade color, your middle color or the highlight color.

I know some people like to start with the shade color and move up to the highlights. Others have said that they start with the highlight color and work their way down the shadows. It all depends on what way you like and what works for you.

For me, I basecoat with the \"middle\" tone until I get an even coat on. Not sure what paints you are using, but mixing it 30/1 water/paint sounds overly thin and can cause the pigments to separate (resulting in little dots of paint); this is a problem that I had for a long time. Once I stopped thinning them so much, the paint went on much smoother and resulted in a much nicer basecoat.

Once the basecoat is on, I work on the mini from there.

 

[Aliengod3]

Hey Matador

I posted a topic about this subject a while back. Here is a link to the discussion. Automaton also gives a little description of some techniques he employees to work around the problems you are encountering. Trust me, everyone suffers from the same problems regardless of skill level. I hope this link helps!

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=26073

 

[Sjakkie]

Hi there, and welcome!

First of all: well done on taking the effort to actually ask your questions.

It might be a good idea to start out by buying yourself one or two decent brushes. Most importantly they should have a fine sharp point. Sizes are somewhat related to personal preferance, but as long as the point is sharp you could do even your basic detailing with a size 2, while doing larger surfaces with your 10/0 would take you a very long time. I myself (if I actually get to it) paint mainly with a size 2 and a size 0 for tiny detailing. You should be able to obtain decent brushes for somewhere around GBP3/€4/$6. Stay away from regular gaming stores (GW!) for this, and pay a visit to your local art-supplies store.

A thinning ratio of 30 to 1, water to paint, is in my opinion way too thin for what you will be using the paint for. Maybe for certain techniques over light coloured basecoats that may work, for example painting the delicate skin of a exhibition model with a multitude of layers of extremely thin paint over a white(!) basecoat to bring out the various different nuances of her facial expression.
Especially with a black basecoat it won\'t be easy to obtain a smooth result with any finite amount of layers.
Coverage does not only depend on your basecoat, but also on the colour you want to put over it, some have better coverage than others. Then there\'s also a difference between certain brands of paint, but most colours by Citadel (GW) or Vallejo (model/game colour) should lend themselves well to dilluting.

Lately a few tutorial dvd\'s have been released, covering some of the topics you\'re interested in:

The first \"Miniature Mentor\" DVD (the Rackham wolven), although it surely has its flaws, is mostly about painting with very thin and multiple layers, the technique is explained quite well, though for example the price may stop you from obtaining it. There should also be resources available online on this subject.

The second has (amongst numerous other topics) a section on priming a miniature, and it\'s the new DVD by Jérémie Bonamant, on which you can also find more on these forums.

That\'s about it for now. Anyway: good luck!

 

[El Matador]

Hey guys,

thanks for the welcomes and replies , i think il go buy some brushes now actually, theres some good art stores near me =), i apologise for my post being unclear however you have answered my questions and i certainly feel alot better about certain things after reading the other thread Aliengod directed me to.

If my 30:1 is too dilute what would others suggest? and how much should i dilute the paint for a basecoat?

Once again thanks guys, Matador

EDIT: I know that you can prep metal minis (i actually had some success with this) but how would i go about preping a plastic mini?

 

[Roger Bunting]

Hello and welcome. Prepping plastic minis is similar to metal ones. Usually it\'s best to scrape the mould lines off with a knife at a more-or-less 90 degree angle. You can also file them off. Now, this will leave scratches and rough areas so some high grit wet \'n\' dry paper will remove those. I\'m talking about 1200 or so grit (thanks DR for that tip).

Also, wash them with dish soap as there may be mould release still on them.

Then prime them with the same stuff you prime metal minis with, unless you\'re using something that will melt platic. lol

 

[RuneBrush]

Hi,

You\'ve had some good replies, but I\'m going to throw my thoughts in as well

All miniatures require two stages of preparation, first of the tidy-up stage. This is where you use a craft knife, wet n\'dry, needle files to remove the mold lines. I often use all of these tools on one model, but somethimes it will require only one. Its all down to personal preference and your skill with these tools. Occassionally you may also need to fill in holes or do minor repair work with Green Stuff or similar. The second stage is the Undercoat. Generally a sprayed on black or white. This gives you a layer with which to work from, that can be repeated over and over, regardless of the physical colour of the thing you\'re painting.

Just a quick clarifier. Primer - this is a layer of paint (normally) that allows an undercoat to adhere to the surface you are painting. Undercoat - this is a basic colour (generally white / black) that gives you a standard colour to work from. Basecoat - the base colour that you wish a part of your subject to be (e.g. leather could be basecoated in brown, orc skin will be green, ultramarines will be blue, etc, etc).

For most miniatures, citadel Chaos Black and Skull White sprays act as both primer and undercoat. Some models (e.g. ones made from resin) may require something stronger (automotive primer) - but they will still need an undercoat after being primed. Also in my experiences you shouldn\'t paint straight onto a true primer, as this is generally tacky and risks being pulled off should anything come into contact with it. The paint stages are exactly the same as painting wood or metal to be honest!

 

[ErunnerXI]

Citadel white primer is also giving me the same headache at the moment. I read somewhere one guy uses automotive white primer instead. I might try that one myself because it is like the other guys said, goes on dusty and likes to rub off.

A prime example, no pun intended, is on an Urban Mammoth Syntha figure where two bits where the flesh is supposed to be rubbed off at the last middle coat during the beginning of my highlight stage. The little lady now has two giant metallic splotches on her deltoid that won\'t take any paint that look hideous (I\'d redo the whole thing if the rest of it didn\'t look so darn good).:flame:

 

[evil tendencies]

Originally posted by ErunnerXI
Citadel white primer is also giving me the same headache at the moment. I read somewhere one guy uses automotive white primer instead. I might try that one myself because it is like the other guys said, goes on dusty and likes to rub off.

A prime example, no pun intended, is on an Urban Mammoth Syntha figure where two bits where the flesh is supposed to be rubbed off at the last middle coat during the beginning of my highlight stage. The little lady now has two giant metallic splotches on her deltoid that won\'t take any paint that look hideous (I\'d redo the whole thing if the rest of it didn\'t look so darn good).:flame:

To avoid rubbing off the primer, I attach a rare earth magnet to the figure\'s base, and then use a cork stand with some sheet metal on top. The cork gives me a good grip, lets me not touch the model with bare hands, and is easily removed when the model is done.

 

[El Matador]

Hello again, thans for the replies,

I was also wandering, if i was to not prime the model and paint on chaos black or skull white how would it affect the out come of the model?

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by El Matador
Hello again, thans for the replies,

I was also wandering, if i was to not prime the model and paint on chaos black or skull white how would it affect the out come of the model?

There\'s nothing to stop you, in fact my local GW shows kids how to do this in store so they can paint the figures virtually straight away.
However, it is tedious and can lead to \"Detail clogging\" as doing it by brush can mean a \"Hotch-Potch\" of dilution, but done \"right\" it should make no real difference to the outcome of the model.

There are a number of Paint on Primers, Vallejo do a Foundation White which I have mixed with other colours to achieve a specific primer colour. There is also a Vallejo Airbrush Grey primer which is equally easy to use as a brush on. Smooth and with fine pigment.

 

[freakinacage]

ack use a decent primer. halfords do a great grey one that is cheaper, smoother and stronger than gw. grey is also a nice colour to work form as it takes both dark and light colours well

 

[Sauce Devil]

I think I understand the first question; by \"base-coating\" you mean priming?

I like GW spray primers (even though they are overpriced) but I get that \"dustiness\" you mentioned if I spray too heavily, and if I don\'t give the miniatures at least four coats there are always big bare patches I have to paint over with brush-on paint.

Thoroughly washing the miniatures seems to help but they never come out perfect.

Don\'t forget to unclog the nozzle (or \"actuator\" to use the technical term) by turning the can upside-down and spraying until no paint comes out; it wastes gas but if you let the nozzle get clogged the paint will come out very \"spitty\" and give an uneven coat; you can tell when the nozzle is clogging because it becomes harder to press it.

Painting red over black is difficult with normal Citadel Color paints so either use Citadel Foundation or Vallejo or another similar high-pigmentation paint, or work the color up from a brown undercoat.

Can anyone tell me what \"juicing\" is? I\'ve not heard of that technique.

 

[El Matador]

Hello friends,

i think my initial confusion came from not properly understanding the difference between a basecoat, undercoat and a basecoat.

It also sounds like i wasnt using the primer correctly as i was spraying way to much on. I think il give painting it on a go as i hate spray on primers :twisted:

Just to clarify if i was to paint something, say red as an example, the process should be along the lines of...

Clean mini
Spray a dusty coat of primer on
apply a scab red or a red basecoat (name escapes me :no
Then use progressevly lighter reds eg, scab red, red gore, blood red up untill your final highlight, and darker reds for the shadeed areas?

the dustyness i had refered to was actually after i had diluted the paint and applied layers, not with the priming, however after reading Aliengods post the correct term for it would be \"chalky\".

Thanks

PS: Sauce Devil - \"Juicing\" is a techneque used by Sebastian Archer that involves lots of tranlucent layers upon one another, he has wrote an excellant artice on the techneque here

http://www.mainlymedieval.com/ozpainters/viewtopic.php?t=49&start=0

Hope this helps, sorry i couldnt get the link working ???

EDIT: now it is working ??? how strange haha

 

[Sauce Devil]

I\'ll read that article later
Got to go to work in 30 seconds!

Don\'t forget to dilute your paints a little, apply them at about the consistency of milk.

 

[lizcam]

Not much for me to add. I use a paint on primer myself. Makes getting missed mold lines easy to fix. Just clean it up and re-paint the primer. Mostly I just wanted to say welcome!

 

[El Matador]

Thanks Saucedevil, i think youl find the article usfull, whenever you say milk like consistancy i see this alot but to be honest im not completely sure what this is (if it changes for each paint then i think i have a better understanding?)

And thanks for the welcome Lizcam, this is really a friendly forum

Ive had another go at painting today, I started by removing mold lines, fileing, sanding and using wet and dry, after this i painted chaos black paint onto the model (with no primer) straight from the pot (is this OK?). I then tried to paint red.

I followed Vincent Hudon\'s guide for reds as much as i could and yet the first layer of Scab red was uneven. This has really really confused me as before it was suggested that i was overdiluting my paints and now i used a much stronger dialution (around 10/1) and its still uneven. Vincent has virually perfect reds, the best in the world in my opinion and yet i am using the same techneque as him with erratic success, with it working on some models and not others ???.

Im fairly certain that its somthing simple that i need to correct, il try to get pictures up later, but i cant find my lead :no:

Again any help is really apreciated, El Matador

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by El Matador
Ive had another go at painting today, I started by removing mold lines, fileing, sanding and using wet and dry, after this i painted chaos black paint onto the model (with no primer) straight from the pot (is this OK?). I then tried to paint red.

Personally if I\'m touching up the Black Spray Primer I mix black ink in with the Black paint. It thins the paint without overdiluting the colour. (Pity I haven\'t got a lot left).

 

[RuneBrush]

Originally posted by El Matador
I followed Vincent Hudon\'s guide for reds as much as i could and yet the first layer of Scab red was uneven.

One thing that takes a while to get used to is that your basecoat will have to be applied in many thin layers. Its far too tempting to glob paint on, but half a dozen thin layers really pays dividends ultimatly.

Pete