Darkeden baby head

[Herb the bitter]

I have to admit I was disappointed when I sought out the picture after reading this thread. While technically well done, I found it neither shocking nor beautiful.

Not my cup of tea, but nothing I\'m going to lose sleep over.

 

[OrkyDave]

Whilst I respect and also defent the artists right to produce whatever art they wish to, SURELEY he MUST have known this submission would cause contraversey.

One of the rules of these very forums is that it is not a matter of crossing the line, more staying well away from it, does this not apply to submissions?

Whilst it is technically very well done, I did find the piece shocking, and something I would rather not see. This is only my opinion however, it doesn\'t make it right but I am entitled to it. (I am however, a father of a 2 year old with special needs who has needed to be resucitated a couple of times in the past. When your own child goes a similar colour to this there is absolutley nothing artistic about it. Believe me.)

That being said however, I find this piece no more shocking than the scene in the film \'Trainspotting\' where you see the dead baby in the cot. That scene could have been cut from the movie, but was not, and was deemed acceptable for an 18 certificate film, therefore I feel that the submission is ok on here, an 18 site.

@ French kid, if you have a couple of minutes spare, would you mind translating the artists responses to the comments for me please? it would be interesting to get a bit of background as to why the piece was created. (I did try to cut and paste it into an online translator but came out gobbledey gook!

 

[frenchkid]

Ask and you shall get:

Hello. Everybody. So thank for your support.
I would like to point out that if this picture shocks you it has non the less been moderated. So you should also adresse your concerns to the moderators of Coolmini. Don\'t forget that you are dealing with a piece of painted fimo nothing more. And it as to be said that it is an auto portrait, so I\'m not forcing you to see somebody close to you either. I do not force people to look at my work and apparently it has found its place on this site. In any case this type of work will always have people screaming in outrage at it and others appriciationg it. This type of debate as nothing new and is completly pointless. Once again nobody is forcing you to look at this and definetly not to vote on this. What drives me crazy is that nobody would go screaming if it was a mini of chucky when it\'s basically the same thing. I like FX (special effect ?) I like doing them , I like things that are gore, I find them amusing, I also know that some people appriciate while other shune it and find it gross. As the saying goes, you can have a laugh about anything, but not with everybody. So keep on painting big deamons full of pus with their bowels spilling out if you like it. But going out of your way to raise a scandal like this won\'t get you anywhere.
I never did any nazy or porno mini, and quite frankly my head isn\'t exactly more brutal then what you see on Tv news where you see REAL PEOPLE dead.
In any case that\'s how I see it. So continue to think what you want , if you judge that it should\'nt appear on coolmini send a mail to the administrator. Sorry for the those I schocked. Rem



Dosn\'t detail the why of the piece, but like I said before, it\'s just an auto portrait that he though needed some goring up. Wips can be seen on Crea.

And the last part is in bold, becaused it seemed to me the exact opposit of spiting in sombody\'s face...

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Duende
Like everybody else said, once censorship starts, where would it end?

Personally, I\'m offended by the cutesy fuzzy crap, I want more offensive stuff with nakedness, gore, blood and guts flying everywhere! (JK!)(.. well, ok , maybe just more nakedness )

But really, this isn\'t a REAL dead baby head, sheesh! You need to go to rotten.com for that. But what the heck does being a father have to do with it?? I have a wonderful little girl and I don\'t look at Ritual\'s Baby Kade and think, \"OMG, that could be my daughter!... on one of her bad days.... so.... she better not see this.... like she looks at this site anyway.... urrrmmm...\"

Seriously, there are bigger problems out there to worry rather than a sculpted baby face with some paint applied in a disturbing way. I\'d be more offended if it was poorly painted.

Really, if you\'re so hypersensitive that you\'re going to get your panties in a twist over this, maybe you really shouldn\'t be hanging out online at all, because there\'s a lot of even more offensive out there.

i dont know duende but for me... being a father is what makes me revolted by the image. i see my son every day and love him with all my being. since becoming a parent i have developed certain attitudes and emotions that i previously did not consider before. ten years ago i would have laughed at it, but times and minds do change.

should it be censored? no. but i definitely wont be looking at it again.

i believe in freedom of thought and speech and this is such a thing. the same way i support others like the KKK and neo-nazis who preach their hate. i dont like it, but you cannot have your cake and eat it too. this piece of art causes shock and anger, along with other emotions. something can be technically beautiful, but lack in others. for this piece i voted it a 3. i found the subject to be lude and disgusting, and painting wonderfully done. but as many will attest to, a miniature or work of art for that matter is not successful based solely on technique.

i hate this piece, i can truly say that, but at the same time i will be the first to stand up and applaud the mod\'s for allowing this piece to stay up. this causes us to look at ourselves as well and at who we are. so if you walk away with a better understanding of yourself, then maybe its not so bad after all.

just something to ponder.

 

[Chern Ann]

Just a small point. Forum rules and picture posting rules are completely different. Consider them separate animals.

 

[Bill]

Uber, that was too deep! I\'m drowning!

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Bill
Uber, that was too deep! I\'m drowning!

i dont know if i should take that as a compliment or not. ???

 

[OrkyDave]

Irrespective of the content of the piece, at 1:1 scale does this even belong on a MINIATURE painting site?

I would reckon when a piece is lifesize it is no longer a mini.

(I can assure you I am not bringing this up because its a baby head, I feel the same way when people post lifesize boltguns and 40k weaponry).

@ chern out of curiosity, are there any rules about submission posting anywhere, I had a quick look but could not find anything.

@ frenchkid, thanks for the translation, I reckon he could have a very sucessful career in special effects!

 

[freakinacage]

i like it. well i don\'t like it, but i think it is well done. looks like a zombie baby to me, kinda like the one from dawn of the dead. they didn\'t censor that.


ewwwww

 

[Ritual]

@uber
That was a very sensible and mature post (yes, I am calling you mature... I guess you will snap out of it soon enough! lol). This is exactly the response I would expect from someone who doesn\'t appreciate a piece like this but still strongly values the freedom of thought and expression. Cheers! :beer:

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Ritual
@uber
That was a very sensible and mature post (yes, I am calling you mature... I guess you will snap out of it soon enough! lol). :

BOOBIES!!!!!!!!!!

how was that ritual?

:innocent::innocent:

 

[Ritual]

As I expected... it was only a temporary thing!! lol

 

[philologus]

Moderators: Good job, right decision in allowing it to stay.

Uber: Did it hurt to type something serious?

Me: I give it a 4, well painted but my problems are:

1. Not cool IMO, this is COOL Mini or Not.
2. Not a mini really.

 

[Duende]

Originally posted by uberdark

BOOBIES!!!!!!!!!!

I take offense to that! Ever since developing my own pair, I have developed certain attitudes and emotions about them that I previously did not consider before.





(sorry, uber, I couldn\'t help myself!)

*EDIT*
OK, maybe I\'m a bit think, but I still don\'t get the \"because I\'m a parent\" angle as a reason to be offended. I\'m the proud mommy of a darling little girl, but I don\'t get all in a snit every time I see one of the twisted Alice in Wonderland figures. I really don\'t get the connection... it also makes it seem like that depictions of dead/zombie/killer babies are ok only to those without infants in the household, but if you\'re passed your genes on to the next generation, that stuff should be taboo? Huh?

 

[OrkyDave]

different folks, different strokes duende. Some people could argue how could you not be upset at it being a parent? Everyones brain ticks around on different cogs.

Just because some parent folk are upset by it (myself included) doesn\'t mean that every parent has to find it shocking.

 

[Highbulp Billy]

I\'m also in that \"being a father has chamged the way i view the world\" camp. Before my son was born, I paid little attention to the news stories of children being abused or neglected. Now, I find it hard to watch films or TV shows in which children (especially babies) are mistreated. Our frames of reference develop as our lives change and new roles and experiences shape how we view the world. Maybe this case is more noticeable in men who are generally seen as less sensitive than women to begin with but change dramatically when they become fathers - just conjecture on my part.

I was lucky enough not to see this mini before reading this thread so was prepared for what came up. I found the image unsettling due to high level of detail and skill of the artist and what it represents but I have seen more shocking and offensive images (just not on CMON). I don\'t think it\'s \"cool\" but that is just my opinion and I agree that it has every right to be here.

Perhaps the most shocking thing is that agree with everything Uber posted earlier. I just hope he never reads that bit

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

You all need to get a life..its just a model thats painted..if you dont like it..move on.. dont whine about it. Thats why CA put the little red next arrow at the top of the page.

This a sight for grown up, not children.. read term number 1 in the terms of agreement.

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by Dragon Forge Design
You all need to get a life..its just a model thats painted..if you dont like it..move on.. dont whine about it. Thats why CA put the little red next arrow at the top of the page.

This a sight for grown up, not children.. read term number 1 in the terms of agreement.

@ dragon forge: i dotn think your are understanding what we are talking about. everyone on here, if they liked it or disliked it, still say keep it on. and yes we can move on, the fact of the matter is that it has caused many people to questions certain terms and notions dealing with art and what is considered \"good\" or \"bad\" art. note the quotations. in the end everyone who has responded on this thread has done so with a calm and clear idea.

so i guess the question is why are you so mad ???

 

[OrkyDave]

Oh I am sorry DFD, i thought this was the DISCUSSIONS thread, where people could DISCUSS and air their thought and opinions on miniatures submitted. Are we in the \'Grow up and stop whineing thread\' Sorry. My mistake.

Have you actually taken the time to read the \'whining\' comments? the vast majority of them are applauding the mods for not censoring the piece, stating they have seen similar in films and defending the posters right to submit it. We live in a democracy and are entitled to our opinion. Yes, we know its not a real baby head. Yes we know its just a piece of fimo sculpted and painted, and yes we find the subject matter sick and disturbing.

A lot of people fought and died for our freedom of speech and I will not be told to shut up and stop whining by anyone.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

I\'m not mad at all..if you want to see me make a mad post Ill make a mad post.

What your discussing pure and simple is censorship.. your saying because \"I\" don\'t like something it shouldnt be seen, or herd or read and in my book that is just wrong.In fact its dangerious. Yes you are right, some are saying they may find it distasteful but don\'t remove it. But there are others who are saying this should never be seen..make it go away..Now! and I don\'t agree with that. I may look at the piece myself and go eww.. but I can appreciate the talent it took to make such a piece. But what id never do is say something should be removed because it might offend someone.

I also have serious issues with every time when some one uses the \"oh that shouldnt be here because of the children here\", when in fact according to the number one rule in the terms of service is that you need to be 18 to access this site. So to say this should be a rated G or even PG site is wrong.