Darkeden baby head

[frenchkid]

Ok just noticed that darkeden posted his minis on CMON and was a bit perplex when I saw the comments for his baby head . Was wondering what you guys where thinking.

I personaly agree with what he says.

The guys who say this has no technical value abviously don\'t know shit about either sculpting or painting. The painting on this one is amazing as is the sculpting, especcially considering it\'s an autoportrait.

As for those who say this is too disgusting to be on CMON or moraly wrong, well I\'d rather see somthing like that then this , interestingly enough the guy who painted this is actually one of those saying this piece does nothing to promote the hobby ).

And considering how grity and dark the 40K universe is, I hardly understand why people would consider this too gore, they don\'t have a probleme with khorn minis dripping blood, or with nurgle minis showing gore all over the place but have a probleme with this ???

 

[Bignastyshark]

OMG

i Completly agree with frenchkid,

This is truly an amazing piece of work,

Yes the sculpt is a little alarming at first but isnt damien hirsts tiger shark in formaldahyde all little worse yes i think so!!

all the people who have scored this 1\'s have done so out of malicios intent! they have not judged the painting or sculpting skill!! just there personal opinion on the subject matter,

I hereby challenge \'Bugsda\' for his comment,

\'\'any half decent sculpter could do it in this scale and any make up artist could paint it\'\'

you have a modicome of painting talent but can you sulpt? if so give this ago!! lets see your efforts before you judge so harshly!!!

Feel free to berate me in the same way but i could not paint or sulp anything this fantastic in many years,

Apologies for the controversial view here, i am just sick of people bad mouthing amazing pieces or \'ART\' because that is what it is, yes shocking but beautiful at the same time,

Many thanks,

Iain Hale
Bignastyshark

 

[aurelio]

i would like to say something about it.

first of all, speaking on your own language on the internet and public servers, sites and such like this one is very rude. this is not pointed at you, this is pointed at that guy and all of those that posted on french below the picture.

picture is very disturbing and disgusting. as i said, i am a father of two little boys and i found it very untasty(?). someone said that is conservatism. i don\'t think so. maybe that face cuold remind someone at his baby? so you think that it is ok? disturbing pictures like that shoud be posted at his own site and that is absolutely corect.

as a moderator at a biggest gaming forum in my country, i learned something. if somebody find something disturbing, rude or anything related, i should think about it and erase, delete or edit anything that contains possible broblems. taht guy just said: \"continue to think what you want\" ?!?!?! he just spited in our faces! that is unbelievable.

all of this is not related with his artistic skills which are really amazing.

regards.

sorry about my bad english

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by aurelio
i would like to say something about it.

first of all, speaking on your own language on the internet and public servers, sites and such like this one is very rude. this is not pointed at you, this is pointed at that guy and all of those that posted on french below the picture.

As far as I know this is an international site and people can post in the language they want. You seem to think that people should bend over to please you, that is not the case.

Originally posted by aurelio
the picture is very disturbing and disgusting. as i said, i am a father of two little boys and i found it very untasty(?). someone said that is conservatism. i don\'t think so. maybe that face cuold remind someone at his baby? so you think that it is ok? disturbing pictures like that shoud be posted at his own site and that is absolutely corect.

as a moderator at a biggest gaming forum in my country, i learned something. if somebody find something disturbing, rude or anything related, i should think about it and erase, delete or edit anything that contains possible broblems. taht guy just said: \"continue to think what you want\" ?!?!?! he just spited in our faces! that is unbelievable.

Every time I see a nurgle mini I think of my bowels spilling out, is that ok ?

Every time you don\'t like a mini that mini should be erased ? If everybody though the same a lot of minis would disapear from this site, if not all. What did you expect him to say ? \"Sorry you don\'t like it, I will take it done right away\". If I go to your gallery and don\'t like one of your mini will you take it down ?

The fact is that the french comunity is very active and French painter and sculptor post on this site so that a greater number of people can view their minis, not because they have somthing to gain from it. And I think CMON is richer for it.

If I was to judge, I\'d say you are the one spitting in his face by condemning his art because of personal tast. Disagreeing is one thing, calling for censure is another.

 

[Bignastyshark]

Ok i can see your point about someone thinking that this might resemble there child, if so that is unfortunalte and i feel for them,

However, since i last checked speaking in your own language was not illegal,

As for the content of the site there are some amazing \'NAKED WOMEN\' on here that could be considered porn!! do you suggets that we take all of them from the site also!!!

If you are worried about what your children might see on the internet (for which i genunily applaud you) you need to vet the sites they use! or just simply warn them!

you cannot censor a site such at this,

Jew may be offended by the ww2 figures
Christians by the roman figures
women by the naked women figures!

Just out of interest do you find the images of the figure \'Baby Kade\' disturbing?

A knife weiding teddy killer baby?


Iain Hale
Bignastyshark

 

[Avelorn]

eh? Firstly this IS an over 18 homepage

1. Use of CoolMiniOrNot is available only to individuals who can form legally binding contracts under applicable law. This excludes in all cases minors (persons who have not reached their eighteenth birthday).

I find this less disturbing then sexist figures and some graphic violence I\'ve seen on this site. Not that I ever would think of censoring those.

But is there a line and where do we draw it then? following the Hollywood textbook it is probably dead children (like this) and dead animals like cats and puppies.. I found it very funny that people complained on the rabbits being killed in Michael Moores \"Roger and me\" but not the human being shot.

EDIT: I\'ve thought about this some more.. maybe there could be a warning like on youtube for graphical violence and nudity when the picture is like that. Just so that casual browsers won\'t be shocked.

 

[Yetie]

I find it shocking but then i find history shocking, \"art\" is what its, the skill that has gone into it is amazing and in no way could i do somthing to touch it. Subject matter aint always nice and cant always be flowers and bowls of fruit. I have to agree that the universe\'s that we set our models in are in genral dark and bloody. Just because something offends or makes us wince does not mean it should be cast off with no thought. And after all the T&C state over 18\'s only so really it is down to personl judgement. To mark somthing down due to subject matter and not skill and effort is wrong in my mind worse than if the subject offends. Thats my 2p i dont mean to offend with my comments its just the way i see it and from a personal point can see why the model may offend. However i can\'t see that the model was painted to cause offence or to hurt on a personl level and think that it should be judged objectivly not personaly.

 

[james sequeira]

Its creepy but good, anyone whos worried about the age barrier thing, CSI is on a hmm 9pm and they have had to gruesome episodes, including one where they had to inject into a deceased baby\'s eye for DNA.

 

[generulpoleaxe]

the biggest reason for people complaining is that it is a 1-1 scale of a stillborn babies head.

if it had been an adult i don\'t think it would have caused any outrage.

 

[Ritual]

Why do some people cry for censorship as soon as they see something they disapprove of? We should enjoy having the freedom to express ourselves freely. One of the consequences of having this freedom is that you can say or do something that someone else disapproves of. People need to accept that! If you don\'t like this just don\'t look at it anymore. Don\'t deny people to post things like this just because you don\'t want to see it!

 

[Decoy]

Censorship is a complicated thing. Easy to start, difficult to restrict )

 

[generulpoleaxe]

i think forcing people to see things they don\'t wish to, is also wrong.

people looking through the gallery who don\'t want to look at dead babies heads don\'t have a choice about this randomly popping onto their screen.

whilst if it was in an exhibition that contained other such pieces, people would be told what to expect and it would then be their choice to view it.

it works both ways.

doesn\'t bother me realy, but i know some people whome it would bring back realy bad memories.

artists can\'t expect respect without first showing respect.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
i think forcing people to see things they don\'t wish to, is also wrong.

people looking through the gallery who don\'t want to look at dead babies heads don\'t have a choice about this randomly popping onto their screen.

whilst if it was in an exhibition that contained other such pieces, people would be told what to expect and it would then be their choice to view it.

it works both ways.

doesn\'t bother me realy, but i know some people whome it would bring back realy bad memories.

artists can\'t expect respect without first showing respect.

No one is forcing anyone. It shouldn\'t come as a surprise to anyone that CMON contains gruesome pics. If you know you have problems with this you can\'t blame someone else if you\'re disturbed by something you come across while browsing the site.

Artists who do controversial stuff may very well not gain respect from anyone and that\'s fine. I haven\'t seen darkeden demanding respect anywhere. Everyone can have whatever opinion they like about darkeden, but demanding censorship goes beyond that as censorship limits how people in general can express themselves. Darkeden is responsible for his/her own work, and if you don\'t like it you can say so (as many people have). But please, don\'t try to limit the freedom of artistic expression.

EDIT: This is not directed towards generulpoleaxe, but uses your post merely as a starting point for my arguments.

 

[PegaZus]

Originally posted by generulpoleaxe
i think forcing people to see things they don\'t wish to, is also wrong.

people looking through the gallery who don\'t want to look at dead babies heads don\'t have a choice about this randomly popping onto their screen.

First, this isn\'t directed towards you personally.

But the problem arises when one tries to accommodate everybody. They also don\'t have any choice about any Orks holding dangling Space Marine heads, or S&M-ish figures, or naked concubines. So to be completely inoffensive, only cute non-violent figures would be allowed.

Once you\'ve been here long enough, I would assume one would know what was going to possibly pop up. That\'s one reason that while I\'m a work, I don\'t vote. If something pops up inappropriately, and my boss walks in, I\'m fired. There\'s zero tolerance on that. (Okay, maybe not MY boss, but lets say some hypersensitive individual of a reporting nature).

Since I have no control over what is coming, I don\'t do it. I take the responsibility and the risk any time I view something here, or even nearly anywhere on the web. Others should do the same. If they don\'t like what\'s posted, stop going to that web site.

Say \"hi\" to the Amish once you finished banning yourself from places you might be offended.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by PegaZus
So to be completely inoffensive, only cute non-violent figures would be allowed.

Cindy Dukino would love that lol

 

[Avelorn]

@gpa: And so might depictions of war...

But I can really understand that people might not want to see dead babies, guts and intestines, gore, nude men and women or whatever casually browsing. Therefor as I suggested an option might be to have a \"this image contains blabla do you wish to continue yes/no\" if people find it necessary.

I mean sometimes freedom of speech and to publish what you like is bad.. I think people are trying to hard to find something that is good under all circumstances, laws not leaving glitches. That is simply not possible.. what I might think is acceptible might be another ones no.1 priority for censoring. I see pictures everyday that I don\'t want to see.. that I am forced to see. But that is how it is.

Imagine I\'ve lost a baby and I see that picture it reminds me of it.. and I feel hurt and mad as hell. Why have I the right to try to censor it? Is it because my loss and do everyone have to respect my loss of my baby never to depict A baby dead or as in this case possibly a zombie (that\'s how I interpreted it)? If I lost my mother and I see a mother decapitaded on film I might be hurt and mad as hell. Have I the right not to censor it? No: that is A mother you might say.. and not your mother. And it is the same in this case.. this is A baby not anyone specifics baby.

If this was a specific baby then I\'d think it would be very inappropriate and disrespectful. Therefor I also have trouble sometimes viewing real-life events.. like media showing real dead people or the face of a non-convicted murderer. It can be so very disrespectful.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Yes, this is a disturbing and challenging image.
But let me say that I am the person who approved it in the first place. (Braces for Stick & Stones ) I would like to point out that this is, I have been informed, taken from the movie \"Silent Hill\".

Now I understand that some parents, like a number who have raised the issue with me directly, find the idea and concept of a Child\'s Face made to look corrupt and somewhat depraved, unpleasant and unsettling. That I can comprehend.

However, this site has many graphic depictions of violence, and I\'d like to point out that the figures of Alyx and BabyKade also impinge on peoples \"Comfort Zone\", in that they also depict, what we are culturally conditioned to see as Innocents, in a very dark and macabre way.

Now the image in question is, to myself and the other moderators, in exactly the same frame of reference to BabyKade in that it is also Macabre and challenges our preconceptions of Childhood innocence.

We’ve discussed the image and agree that it is an artistic piece and designed to challenge us. We also agree that we do not intend to censor or remove the image as that would lead us into the situation where we could be not approving images which could offend people on religious or other grounds. The limits we have imposed upon our approval are in fact very tolerant.




The issue of discussing the image and responding to others challenges doesn’t have a boundary set about it in English. As has been pointed out this is an International Site and not everyone is fluent in all languages. The ability to get an accurate translation of French into English is available via http://www.dictionary.com as is a reverse translation for English to French.
It is the site I use when my limited translation skills fail when approving comments. If you don\'t understand French use the translator.

Critical comments about this image are fine, defensive comments are also fine, but what I and the other moderators do not want to see is retaliatory comments and actions on anyone gallery who hold opposing viewpoints of the people discussing the image. I have been forced this morning to delete two really insulting comments from people who should know a damn site better.

Basically, discuss this rationally please.



End of sermon.

 

[Duende]

Like everybody else said, once censorship starts, where would it end?

Personally, I\'m offended by the cutesy fuzzy crap, I want more offensive stuff with nakedness, gore, blood and guts flying everywhere! (JK!)(.. well, ok , maybe just more nakedness )

But really, this isn\'t a REAL dead baby head, sheesh! You need to go to rotten.com for that. But what the heck does being a father have to do with it?? I have a wonderful little girl and I don\'t look at Ritual\'s Baby Kade and think, \"OMG, that could be my daughter!... on one of her bad days.... so.... she better not see this.... like she looks at this site anyway.... urrrmmm...\"

Seriously, there are bigger problems out there to worry rather than a sculpted baby face with some paint applied in a disturbing way. I\'d be more offended if it was poorly painted.

Really, if you\'re so hypersensitive that you\'re going to get your panties in a twist over this, maybe you really shouldn\'t be hanging out online at all, because there\'s a lot of even more offensive out there.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by Duende
because there\'s a lot of even more offensive out there.

Like that man with really tight jeans lol

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach
I have been forced this morning to delete two really insulting comments from people who should know a damn site better.

Hummm as my comment on the SS bust didn\'t pass I would assume that I am one of the two. But considering the fact that the comment was a copy of a comment (that was approved....) left elsewhere by the author of the bust I don\'t see how it was really insulting. I\'ll agree that it was immature though (dosn\'t mean I wouldn\'t do it again )


As for the origin of the baby head, I don\'t think it is from silent hill, that would be another diorama from him. The head was just an auto portrait from a pic of him when he was baby, and he decided to \'pervert\' it once he was done ( he seems to like perverted things ).