Female Dwarf Hammerer

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
You guys. Tidoco is a talented painter with a high scoring gallery, have a look. One post of an ugly model, well painted but with flaws, and the score reflects that.

To pull the fig, whine about not scoring high enough and declare the psoting to be over is childish.

Reverend says this is a decent dude who must have been having a bad day.

I don\'t know why we\'re trying to pat him on the back and console him after he\'s thrown a fit.
 

Beelzebrush

Active member
Originally posted by ScottRadom
You guys. Tidoco is a talented painter with a high scoring gallery, have a look. One post of an ugly model, well painted but with flaws, and the score reflects that.

To pull the fig, whine about not scoring high enough and declare the posting to be over is childish.

Reverend says this is a decent dude who must have been having a bad day.

I don\'t know why we\'re trying to pat him on the back and console him after he\'s thrown a fit.

Posts like this really piss me off the use of emotive and reactionary language gets up my nose... if Tim doesn\'t want to post pics here any more, then that\'s his choice.... he\'s probably pissed off with having previous stuff sniped as well rather than just this.

I stopped posting stuff here too ages ago for similar reasons... I think you\'ll find a LOT of people are nowhere near as frequent at submitting stuff or simply don\'t bother any more.... having said that, you\'ve only been here for 5 minutes so you probably wouldn\'t realise.
 

supervike

Super Moderator
Originally posted by Beelzebrush

Posts like this really piss me off the use of emotive and reactionary language gets up my nose... if Tim doesn\'t want to post pics here any more, then that\'s his choice.... he\'s probably pissed off with having previous stuff sniped as well rather than just this.

I stopped posting stuff here too ages ago for similar reasons... I think you\'ll find a LOT of people are nowhere near as frequent at submitting stuff or simply don\'t bother any more.... having said that, you\'ve only been here for 5 minutes so you probably wouldn\'t realise.




I completely understand that stance. To some people, the scores are very important. It would be frustrating as hell to work very hard on a mini, and then have someone take, oh three seconds, and brand it a 5-6.

It\'s easy to get caught up in that competitiveness, especially when folks like Tim and Mr. Beelzebrush strive so hard for the best they can do.

I have firmly come to the believe that the voting on this site is a Paradox. It ruins the site at the same time as making it one of the best.
 

arogers907

New member
Huh... looks like I may be alone in liking this sculpt. Of course, look at my gallery. I obviously have a thing for Rackham dwarfs. =)

I do agree that the skin on her doesn\'t meet your usual level of painting.

As for scores...

http://www.coolminiornot.com/206434

http://www.coolminiornot.com/180309

Here\'s two of my minis. They are both dwarves and posted within a year of each other. Both have around 70 votes. Personally, I look at the GW crappy plastic starter dwarf from the WFB box set and think, \"Meh. At least I didn\'t waste too much time on it.\"

I look at the Rackham dwarf and remember resculpting the foot, rebuilding the mushed points on the hammer head, sculpting the base, carefully glazing all the shadows, adding all the pin point highlights, etc. The thing probably took me 7 or 8 times longer to complete.

The GW dwarf is at a 7.0 the Rackham at a 6.9. Registered voters actually put the GW at 6.8 and the Rackham one down at 6.4! Both are in the bottom range of my gallery and probably deserve to be there. So, I can talk pretty honestly about them not having any attachment to the scores.

I say all this \'cause if people were to vote on the quality of the paint job and the effort-time-energy I put into the fig, the Rackham dwarf should blow the modest GW dwarf out of the water. People don\'t, though. They see a pic they don\'t much care for and click 6 or 7 without a second thought. Can\'t really blame them. I\'d score your mini up 1) because I recognize your name, 2) because it\'s a dwarf, and 3) because it\'s a Rackham model. Those things make it a \'cool mini\' for me.

Now that I think about it, I count people down for similarly subjective reasons. I don\'t like space marines. Doesn\'t matter how well sculpted or painted. I just groan, roll my eyes and click on to the next pic. Not sure why... I just don\'t get the whole 40k-SM thing. It shows in my scoring. I hope people don\'t take offense at that, but personal preference like that does effect how I rate minis on this site.

Anyway. If you actually get to the bottom of this post, please keep submitting your stuff. I lurk more than I post, but I like seeing your stuff. \'Specially your orcs. =)
 

hestan101

New member
well, seems to be a real conflict here, so all i can say is this: when your posting a mini, as long as happy with it, who cares what anybody else thinks? the very fact that people can be disappointed in scores is proof of this, it means youve believe youve done something well, which is a win in my book(but not quite up to the extent of mr castro) its my opinion if youre just putting a mini up to see a 9 next to it, your doing it for the wrong reason. i think its for sharing minis, and saying, \"hey guys have a look what ive done\" so evrybody can come around and comment, and say\" ooo thats cool\" and \"nice, try working on glazes\" and stuff along those lines, which makes us all beter painters, and creates a great community. if your not happy with one score, then kep painting until you are. from a look at tims gallery, hes obviously talented and shouldnt let 1 bad score ruin his enjoyment
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Your CMON score is the product of the five highest-scoring minis in your gallery, so as long as you have more than five posted, it\'s not going to be too damaging.

Personally, I try my damnedest not to take scores too seriously, the peanut gallery doesn\'t have the same tastes I do and I\'m aware that many of my minis would not be considered \"cool\" by many people even though I love them. At the end of the day, it\'s important to consider that coolness is more than just a sweet paint-job. Which that was, by the way. I liked the lipstick - it was a nice touch.
 

Springbok

New member
I dont post many of my painted figs, and so far I\'ve scored in the 6\'s, which I\'m quite happy with. I see it as a benchmark to improve on.
:)

Am I right in thinking that there was a mini posted on here that scored about 6.5, and then went on to win a demon statue afterwards without any more work being done to it?
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Originally posted by Beelzebrush
Originally posted by ScottRadom
You guys. Tidoco is a talented painter with a high scoring gallery, have a look. One post of an ugly model, well painted but with flaws, and the score reflects that.

To pull the fig, whine about not scoring high enough and declare the posting to be over is childish.

Reverend says this is a decent dude who must have been having a bad day.

I don\'t know why we\'re trying to pat him on the back and console him after he\'s thrown a fit.

Posts like this really piss me off the use of emotive and reactionary language gets up my nose... if Tim doesn\'t want to post pics here any more, then that\'s his choice.... he\'s probably pissed off with having previous stuff sniped as well rather than just this.

I stopped posting stuff here too ages ago for similar reasons... I think you\'ll find a LOT of people are nowhere near as frequent at submitting stuff or simply don\'t bother any more.... having said that, you\'ve only been here for 5 minutes so you probably wouldn\'t realise.
Looked at your gallery. Awesome stuff by the way....

Look, all I\'m saying is that tidoco posted a model in the discuss submissions section of a forum that\'s wrapped around an entire site that marks figs on a scale of 1 to 10. His mini was discussed, I was even quite complimentary of his metalics -which I think are great- then his response is to compose a post stating he will never post again because the score was a 6.0

Were you offended by the emotive and reactionary language of his post, or just mine?

It\'s nonsense, and yes childish, to get wrapped up in the score of a single model when his gallery is full of well painted and high scoring models. It\'s an ugly model by my scoring, but I STILL gave it an eight meaning some people likely only gave it a 6. Why is that so awful? Is it impossible for Tidoco to imagine that he may have put his heart and soul into a mini and din\'t get an 8? I don\'t get it. I don\'t understand his response, and more puzzling are all the \"There there, please come back\" posts afterwards.

Tidoco is a GOOD painter. I would hope he calms himself and posts stuff so i can learn and admire it but as you say it\'s his choice. His got skill and his previous scores have reflected that. If we\'re going to take \"snipers\" into account maybe we should take into account some people voting minis up, because they like the dude?

As for people not submitting stuff, that\'s their call. I would hope anyone who\'s been here for more than 5 minutes would not worry so much about the score and focus more on the comments and crits from a given mini.

I find the scoring prcoess to be pretty fair, often harsh, but rarely inaccurate. after 60-80 votes how many snipers would it take to keep a model down at 6.0 instead of 8.0-9.0?

as for only being here 5 minutes myself, I might be a newcomer but in that time I\'ve made friends, a few non friends, and learned a TON. Mostly through the scoring system and this section of the forums. I take it personal (Perhaps illogically) when someone declares the process of this site as unfair, or even innacurate.

I hope you will take my viewpoint into account and see if this will make it possible for myself to continue to discuss figs and other stuff with yourself.
 

Springbok

New member
@ Scottradom, I think your comments were fair and constructive personally, and that you were unfairly attacked for speaking your mind.

Seesh, what happened to freedom of speech and having a personal opinion on something?:rolleyes:
 

tidoco2222

Active member
Sheessh talk about lighting the tinder, I think I ought to reply I would have sooner but I have been extremely busy with work.
This was never intended to be a rant over the voting on the site I removed the mini as I was disappointed at the score it made this was the second attempt I had at putting it my gallery the first time it didn\'t even make a 6 so I tried again and it made 6, now I did originally say that this isn\'t my best (or something along those lines) but I was kind of expecting a 7 plus which I think is not unreasonable and I felt somewhat hard done to (the best way I can think of putting it) when it did as well as it didn\'t and not a single comment to say why it was barely being classed as a tabletop mini. I don\'t post much stuff these days in my gallery anyway so the decision to not add any more was not over reacting (a fine statement from the King of over reactions and the poster of that comment knows exactly what I mean) just a statement of fact.
I have been a member of this site for a long time now and I vote and browse the galleries continuously and over the last 12 months or so the voting here has really become quite unbelievable to be honest. Run of the mill and less than table top minis are outscoring and the good stuff out there (and I am not including myself here) is struggling to make good marks. It is no good saying that scores don\'t matter as clearly they do to alot of people and yes at times they do to me too.
I still comment and offer help when asked and will continue to do so, I will still paint minis as often as my time these days allows and my gallery will remain, I have no intention of removing that I just feel that at the moment I am more comfortable posting finished works on forums that don\'t use voting systems.
I don\'t even mind low marks if the people giving the low marks leave a comment to say for instance \"for me this is only a 5 because it is crap\" at least then you can see a person has the cahoonas to at least be accountable for the vote, I have done similar things myself on occaision ( I am ashamed of doing that actually so whoever it was that I did it to I am sorry).
It is always going to be disappointing to a person when you put your heart and soul into a mini and do the best with it you can and you then see it knocked down very quickly and as stated by beezlebrush this is more common than people would think.
I made a statement in anger but even with hindsight I still think that for now I will stand by my original post.
I never intended for this thread to grow into what it has but I have read all the replies and understand the views on both sides and at least it has generated a bit of healthy debate.
 

Jabberwocky

New member
This is a tough topic. Tim did a fine piece of work here. Aside from the professional painters working on a commission, most (if not all) of us do have a vested interest in our work. We have spent time and effort on a mini and have some idea of what we think the mini should rate. Naturally, knowing how much time and effort we have spent, we expect a certain score. When the score doesn\'t reflect that, it is human nature to get a bit offended. Add to this that this mini was a thoughtful gift for his wife, a low score stings all the more.

The other tough thing about this site (and something I have very much been frustrated by) is the scores are a constantly moving target and with good reason. What is now an \"8\" is very challenging proposition for the average painter. I daresay in many cases an \"8\" from 5 years ago would get you a \"6\" or \"7\" these days. Speaking for myself it has been aggravating to see my work steadily improve and it not be reflected in my scores, or worse to see my scores decline when I am painting clearly better minis. I don\'t believe there is any way to alter or adjust this--it is just the nature of the CMoN beast. I still post completed minis in the hopes of breaking that magical \"8\" but that\'s just me.
 

Amazon warrior

New member
Originally posted by Jabberwocky
...Add to this that this mini was a thoughtful gift for his wife, a low score stings all the more.
I think you\'re the first person to have mentioned this. I wondered if it might have been a factor, but didn\'t particularly want to join in the tennis match. Oh well, too late!

I think it\'s a neat gift with a great backstory, and if she likes it, it shouldn\'t matter what a bunch of strangers on the interwebs think. I know I\'d be touched if my bf painted me a mini (or did something equivalent- he\'s only got a dex of 6, bless!).
 

Springbok

New member
I understand what it feels like to get a low score for a mini that you work long and hard on, the rackham standard bearer in my gallery for example took me about 4 weeks to complete, and I am extremely proud of it!
It was painted for a Wyrd painting competition where I got no votes at all ( but some really nice comments) and it\'s currently standing at 6.3 on this site.
i would have loved to get an 8, but its also important to respect other peoples opinions I think.
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Tidoco- Glad to here your stance and I agree with it. I invite you to openly rip the beejesus out of any of my mini\'s, but your point brings up another one that is awkward for me.

I like your mini and voted accordingly, but let\'s say I didn\'t and i gave it a 6/10. I wouldn\'t leave you a comment, and often don\'t in similar situations, because it\'s clear from the mini and your gallery you\'re better at painting. How does a 6.5 painter tell a 8.0 painter to improve, realistically? It is hard for me to look at a mini rated in the high 7\'s and comment \"You need more contrast in your metals\" or anything constructive because I am unable to do this myself. I know many around here that I speak with feel the same way about crit\'s for painters better then themselves.

I understand the decision to not post your mini\'s. I completely disagree with it, but such is life. I hope you know I never had an issue with you personally, I just felt the hullabuloo about you pulling your fig and the \"Come back, Shane!\" stuff afterwards was a little much. I will continue to peruse your gallery, you\'re a fine artist, and I hope you won\'t throw a eKnife in my face if I ask you for some tips about how you achieved certain results.

for instance....

What color is the robe on the model, and what did you use as a basecoat for your bronze armor?
 

Beelzebrush

Active member
Originally posted by ScottRadom

I hope you will take my viewpoint into account and see if this will make it possible for myself to continue to discuss figs and other stuff with yourself.

I have no problem at all with your viewpoint on this.... as pointed out, comments like - \'rattle out of pram, having a fit, whinging, are all unnecessary and more than likely something that wouldn\'t be said face-to-face. Tidoco is a decent bloke and always comes across as helpful and encouraging and keenly interested in the hobby... he\'s definitely not the mentally-challenged type who takes petty delight in pressing a button with the number 1-2 or 3 on it coz they can\'t paint for shite and deem the sniping of said minis, a jolly wheeze!
 

ScottRadom

Shogun of Saskatchewan
Originally posted by Beelzebrush
...are all unnecessary and more than likely something that wouldn\'t be said face-to-face.

Clearly you don\'t know me well enough!

Glad it\'s settled.
 
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