Glad I\'m Not In School Anymore...
- Thread starter Wren
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beowulfthehunter
New member
Ah the bathroom debate...I am a teacher (or I should say I use to be...currently looking for work..most schools want coaches first teachers second).
Allowing students to go to the bathroom is a huge issue in school reguarless of a grade. As a teacher we are supose to be responsible for our students actions from the time the bell sounds and our period begins to the time it ends.
The rub is how do we know we are to trust these students when they ask to go anywhere. I use to work at a small midwest school (about 5-600 students) and we had 5 minute periods. I cannot tell you how fustrating it is when you watch a student spend all 5 minuets outside your class talking to his hommies and then when the bell rings they walk in and ask \"can I go to the bathroom?\"
Then when you say no they go and pitch a fit to the administration that you are stepping on their rights.
Allowing students to go to the bathroom is a huge issue in school reguarless of a grade. As a teacher we are supose to be responsible for our students actions from the time the bell sounds and our period begins to the time it ends.
The rub is how do we know we are to trust these students when they ask to go anywhere. I use to work at a small midwest school (about 5-600 students) and we had 5 minute periods. I cannot tell you how fustrating it is when you watch a student spend all 5 minuets outside your class talking to his hommies and then when the bell rings they walk in and ask \"can I go to the bathroom?\"
Then when you say no they go and pitch a fit to the administration that you are stepping on their rights.
No Such Agency
New member
Man, that would have given me a complex or something. I can\'t even go at a bar if people outside the restroom can see me standing at the urinal.
This story is bullshit. Holding your urine in can damage your body, and constantly holding your poop in causes painful and unpleasant constipation. Students should not be able to trade their health for grades.
Schools, especially high schools, are now PRISONS. The inmates have no rights, are subject to harsh, inflexible rules, and yet are still at the mercy of their more ruthless peers. Any possessions not essential for use in class have become \"contraband\", anything with a vaguely sharp point is a \"weapon\" and any behaviour showing individuality is \"disruptive\". And all are punished severely.
beowulfthehunter
New member
@NSA
If I amy ask how long have you been out of school?
Go back, I dare you and trust me your opinion will change. As far as the prison analogy goes I must disagree. School is for the betterment of society, but may students and thier parents do not see it as such. They are never responsible for thier own actions and everything is our fault. I have always been respectful and caring to students and for that I have been insulted, had things tossed at me, threatened and cussed at.
As far as items being controband. Trust me I am lucky if my students bring their books and pencils to class. beyond that studnets don\'t need anything else. They do not need thier cell phones, they don\'t need makeup, they don\'t need hackey sacks....
If students feel like School is prison maybe they need to stop sakking their pants like gay inmates.
If I amy ask how long have you been out of school?
Go back, I dare you and trust me your opinion will change. As far as the prison analogy goes I must disagree. School is for the betterment of society, but may students and thier parents do not see it as such. They are never responsible for thier own actions and everything is our fault. I have always been respectful and caring to students and for that I have been insulted, had things tossed at me, threatened and cussed at.
As far as items being controband. Trust me I am lucky if my students bring their books and pencils to class. beyond that studnets don\'t need anything else. They do not need thier cell phones, they don\'t need makeup, they don\'t need hackey sacks....
If students feel like School is prison maybe they need to stop sakking their pants like gay inmates.
No Such Agency
New member
I\'m 31 so I\'ve been out of school for 13 years now. Have kids suddenly become vicious, amoral monsters in that interval? Have they become so savage that they deserve the contempt and iron-fisted micromanagement that is now heaped on them in school?
I doubt it. There were troublemakers, bullies, assholes and shit-disturbers in my high school, and the administration somehow kept things well under control without treating us all like convicts on a chain gang.
The difference now seems to be that many ADMINISTRATORS have become the bullies, lawful-evil tyrants who gleefully await the opportunity to expel, suspend, or hold back graduation from any student who deviates from shuffling submissiveness. And now they can do it from behind the shield of \"Zero Tolerance\" (exacerbated with a goodly amount of overreaction).
OK, it\'s late and I\'m enjoying writing purple prose, but you have to admit that there are a LOT of cases of ridiculously disproportionate punishments, and egregious human rights violations in schools lately. Note that I say \"human rights\" not civil rights because I do not believe that in a compulsory educational system, a child or youth should have to give up such basic rights as freedom of speech or association, or security of their person from unjustified search. The school may be in loco parentis but they are NOT parents, and students should have all the rights at school that they have on the street.
I doubt it. There were troublemakers, bullies, assholes and shit-disturbers in my high school, and the administration somehow kept things well under control without treating us all like convicts on a chain gang.
The difference now seems to be that many ADMINISTRATORS have become the bullies, lawful-evil tyrants who gleefully await the opportunity to expel, suspend, or hold back graduation from any student who deviates from shuffling submissiveness. And now they can do it from behind the shield of \"Zero Tolerance\" (exacerbated with a goodly amount of overreaction).
OK, it\'s late and I\'m enjoying writing purple prose, but you have to admit that there are a LOT of cases of ridiculously disproportionate punishments, and egregious human rights violations in schools lately. Note that I say \"human rights\" not civil rights because I do not believe that in a compulsory educational system, a child or youth should have to give up such basic rights as freedom of speech or association, or security of their person from unjustified search. The school may be in loco parentis but they are NOT parents, and students should have all the rights at school that they have on the street.
There is control, and then there is over-control. The problem is how much is too much, of either rules OR freedoms? Kids today are wildly out of control, and i hear them every day talking back to their parents, mine included. I would have NEVER talked to my father the way my kids sometimes do with me, and ALL the time do with their mother. Kids today have no respect what so ever, and do as they damn well please. As both a parent and ex-teacher (student teacher), I think it\'s high time we bring back the days of a yardstick across the back of the knuckles. I would rather see a kid with a welt on his hand then see him in a car wreck were 3 or 4 teens died becuase no one ever tried to give them any rules. As for schools not giving enough freedom, how about this little gem. That school opened this year, and the kids can do and act (and dress) any way they want because no one wants to \'smother\' their inner self. I always thought of myself as a liberal, but it\'s gotten to the point where we will let anyone get away with anything because anything else wouldn\'t be politicaly correct.
But then again, what do I know? :duh:
But then again, what do I know? :duh:
EclypseDesigns
New member
i feel i have to chime in to this conversation as my partner is a teacher.
NSA- \"I doubt it. There were troublemakers, bullies, assholes and shit-disturbers in my high school, and the administration somehow kept things well under control without treating us all like convicts on a chain gang.\"
the rules have changed since your day obviously. The issue is down to respect, of which there seems to be a general lack in youth today.
Parents on the one hand expect that school should instill some form of discipline (as was done to them) on their children, yet on the other scream bloody murder and child abuse should discipline be used to keep their child in check.
In short the lack of respect is out of control, because of a minority of do gooder parents ensuring that teachers hands are tied when it comes to trying to sort out thier dysfunctional kids.
Just as an example, kid beats another kid in class, can the teacher step in ?
No - unless they have the proper training to restrain one of them. Without it any classroom insurance is void, and the teacher is at risk of prosecution because kids are a LOT more savvy now with the law and to lay a hand on them is assault.
In the UK (ridiculously) local authorities now see exclusion of a particularly aggressive and violent pupil as too expensive and time consuming, thus the pupil is allowed to continue unchecked. Once this sort of thing is allowed to happen kids for the most part have realised they can get away with murder (almost)
Ironicly having spent time in the states i know that kids there have many similarities so the rules that seem stupid here are applicable there.
NSA- \"I doubt it. There were troublemakers, bullies, assholes and shit-disturbers in my high school, and the administration somehow kept things well under control without treating us all like convicts on a chain gang.\"
the rules have changed since your day obviously. The issue is down to respect, of which there seems to be a general lack in youth today.
Parents on the one hand expect that school should instill some form of discipline (as was done to them) on their children, yet on the other scream bloody murder and child abuse should discipline be used to keep their child in check.
In short the lack of respect is out of control, because of a minority of do gooder parents ensuring that teachers hands are tied when it comes to trying to sort out thier dysfunctional kids.
Just as an example, kid beats another kid in class, can the teacher step in ?
No - unless they have the proper training to restrain one of them. Without it any classroom insurance is void, and the teacher is at risk of prosecution because kids are a LOT more savvy now with the law and to lay a hand on them is assault.
In the UK (ridiculously) local authorities now see exclusion of a particularly aggressive and violent pupil as too expensive and time consuming, thus the pupil is allowed to continue unchecked. Once this sort of thing is allowed to happen kids for the most part have realised they can get away with murder (almost)
Ironicly having spent time in the states i know that kids there have many similarities so the rules that seem stupid here are applicable there.
EclypseDesigns
New member
Absolutely 100% couldn\'t agree more. Unfortunately i think parents have gotten lazier too.
It should be a marriage of schooling and parenting, it should start in the home and carry through school.
There is also a lack of structured disciplining in school, invariably select teachers will once see certain pupils for 1 -3 hours per week, how much can you effect a childs development in that time ? particularly when different teachers have wildly different approaches to classroom management.
It should be a marriage of schooling and parenting, it should start in the home and carry through school.
There is also a lack of structured disciplining in school, invariably select teachers will once see certain pupils for 1 -3 hours per week, how much can you effect a childs development in that time ? particularly when different teachers have wildly different approaches to classroom management.
My school didnt let you go to the toilet. Ever. They were premanently locked save for one that was not to dissimilar to a swamp and it was filled with smokers and druggies all the time.
As a result I can no longer need to use the toilet during the day. No matter how much I drink it doesnt affect me. But by about 3:30 when I would get home it suddenly comes back with a vengence lol
As a result I can no longer need to use the toilet during the day. No matter how much I drink it doesnt affect me. But by about 3:30 when I would get home it suddenly comes back with a vengence lol
philologus
Subgenius
Many of these problems would be solved (in the US) if the government didn\'t run the education system. Competition would allow parents more choice and would allow schools to expel under their rules. Likewise, if parents didn\'t approve of school rules then they would have the choice to move their kids to another school with better policies. Government should be in control of as little as possible. Alan Keyes pointed out (paraphrase) that we can\'t expect government to create the next generation of Americans who are critical of government.
No Such Agency
New member
I don\'t mean to insult anyone who\'s a teacher with my previous comments. It\'s not the teachers who are responsible for Zero Tolerance, it\'s the higher-level administrators. Some Principals probably even accept the policies reluctantly... but some seem to act like that guy in \"The Breakfast Club\".
And the issue offends me so much because when you force kids in school to obey arbitrary rules to the letter, and punish them harshly when they break those rules, you don\'t teach them to respect authority and understand the basis of a just, orderly society. You teach them that authority is full of shit and that all rules are arbitrary.
Order without justice is totalitarianism... why are we trying to make young people think that is normal?
And the issue offends me so much because when you force kids in school to obey arbitrary rules to the letter, and punish them harshly when they break those rules, you don\'t teach them to respect authority and understand the basis of a just, orderly society. You teach them that authority is full of shit and that all rules are arbitrary.
Order without justice is totalitarianism... why are we trying to make young people think that is normal?
NickyBlade
New member
I agree it\'s on the parents. I worked at our local elementary school for about 6 or 7 months and 85% of the kids are just obnoxious little brats with no respect for anyone... It\'s terrible! And these were 4th and 5th graders. I wouldn\'t want to see what they turn into in highschool. :wow:
philologus
Subgenius
There\'s no doubts that parents should bear more responsibility than many do. However; having to choose which school to place their kids in and having to move when the little brats screw it up is a good incentive to be involved. Additionally competition would allow schools to charge additional tuition for \"problem\" students, frequent transfers etc. This removes the burden of teachers and other students from having to deal with disorderly students and their inadequate parents.
i for one disagre on some parts.I am 14 and i hope that i am respectful and a nice person.I also know that many other kids like me are also like this.
on the toilet debate our school toilets are horrible.You really dont want 2 go. in a no.1 isnt to bad but for a no.2 i just pretend to be ill and go to our medicle room.only decent toilet in the place.
james
edit:the link at the top dosnt work what is it about ....?
on the toilet debate our school toilets are horrible.You really dont want 2 go. in a no.1 isnt to bad but for a no.2 i just pretend to be ill and go to our medicle room.only decent toilet in the place.
james
edit:the link at the top dosnt work what is it about ....?
johnboyjjb
Active member
My high school had 5 minute breaks between periods. It also had 2200 students when I graduated. It takes roughly 3.5 minutes to get from one end of the school to the other. There were only 3 bathrooms open to students in the whole school. 1 was almost always locked. Makes things tough. Unless I was sick - I wouldn\'t go at school.
Too often in society toda,y parents are blaming anybody they can for their childs poor behaviour. They only blame themselves last if at all, when there is no one else left to blame. It comes down to a few things:
Children are no longer being taught what is right and wrong but what is acceptable and unacceptable - there is a huge difference.
Parents only hold responsibility for their kids when the court forces them to.
Kids aren\'t held responsible for their actions unless it is grevious.
Some people become responbile citizens for the first time when they leave the military. Why? Becuase it is the only discipline they have seen in their whole lives. Military schools are starting to come back. Of course this all from a Seattle point of view as well as being a gross generalization.
Too often in society toda,y parents are blaming anybody they can for their childs poor behaviour. They only blame themselves last if at all, when there is no one else left to blame. It comes down to a few things:
Children are no longer being taught what is right and wrong but what is acceptable and unacceptable - there is a huge difference.
Parents only hold responsibility for their kids when the court forces them to.
Kids aren\'t held responsible for their actions unless it is grevious.
Some people become responbile citizens for the first time when they leave the military. Why? Becuase it is the only discipline they have seen in their whole lives. Military schools are starting to come back. Of course this all from a Seattle point of view as well as being a gross generalization.
