vincegamer
Active member
My question is did Rev think that was a fair representation of the views on the other side?
I didn\'t wanna bring it up, BUT...
- Thread starter DaN
- Start date
Why must someone be one or the other? Can\'t they both coexist in one person?
Peace is a state of harmony, the absence of hostility.
Can a person live in harmony and non-hostility, yet still defend himself from those that would be hostile towards him and his?
I think so.
edit: Do you think that because I own guns, I must want to kill someone?
I do not.
I will, however, to protect my family and myself.
vincegamer
Active member
I just think people find it hard to imagine Jesus blowing away some badguy who attacked Mary Magdaline. I mean, the guy just sat down and let the Romans kill him after all.
philologus
Subgenius
I know you\'re not Christian Vince, but that comment is missing the mark. His purpose in coming was to die in the manner that he did. As for Christians defending themselves, there are plenty of biblical passages that authorize self-defense and justice for wrong-doers.
God\'s decree to Noah in Genesis 9:6
\"Whoso sheddeth man\'s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.\"
Exodus 22:2-3 (on breaking and entering/defending the home)
\"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.
Exodus and Deuteronomy have well-developed legal codes dealing with trial testimony, sentencing and punishment. Many more examples are available.
EDIT: I forgot to include the one reference that made me reply in the first place: Since you mentioned Jesus directly, here is an instance of Jesus directing the disciples to arm themselves:
Luke 22:36-38
36 Then He said to them, \"But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: \'And He was numbered with the transgressors.\' For the things concerning Me have an end.
38 So they said, \"Lord, look, here are two swords.\" And He said to them, \"It is enough.\"
Also John 18:36 which implies that it is OK to fight about earthly matters:
36 Jesus answered, \"My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.\"
Well, I hope this is joke... or you\'d be seriously missing the point about that religion...
\" Today we celebrate the day in which Jesus decided NOT to redeem mankind and instead answered to the persecussions by killing all the guards with a Uzi gun and then burnt down Jerusalem\'s high temple.\"
And Jesus said,\" If he hit you on the left cheek, make a hole in his fuc*ing face.\"
This remind me of the good upright christian people in the southern states who believe in Jesus and a mercifful god, but are weapon worshippers, have been trading black people and hangin homo\'s and retarded for hundreds of year still do it as much as they can, follower of a religion that organised the genocide of your western indians.
Like Jesus wanted that...
Okay I exagerated the point for most of them, most are only deluded and narrowminded, and not dangerous so long as you keep out of their property.
THis to say, having a religion and being a decent human being are two different things
that don\'t necessarily go together. You could be a decent atheist, just as you can be a christian asshole.
During the eulogy of my grandfather, the priest largely described how much he was a decent being, fair and generous and all, then followed this statement by saying he was all that because he accepted Jesus in his heart;
I left the church and vomitted as soon as I was passed the door... It took me a while to settle with religion, I know have learnt to give credit to the man, and let the organisation go to hell.
You did notice the LOL, right?
Dude, this is the epitome of ignorant stereotypes.(backed by Hollywood and the media.)
One could say that just as there are assholes who are Christian, there are Homophobic, Racist Northerners.
I am southern, and I view those statements as insulting, demeaning and generally downright wrong.
Another common misconception, perpetrated by hollywood and the media, is our speech patterns.
If you listened to me and almost everyone I know speak, you would not even be able to begin to guess which part of America we were from due to our lack of accents.
When I lived in California, people assumed I was from California, and were amazed that I was actually from the South.
Then I got to enjoy being called a racist, ignorant, uneducated, because I am southern, when before they knew, I was just one of them.
Never mind the fact that most of the women I dated at the time were hispanic, black , mulatto, or asian, since I was southern, I was a racist.
I even had a girlfriend whose friends would call me \"the savage\" when they didn\'t think I could hear, despite the fact that I had more education than any of them.
It\'s just another form of hate, and trying to percieve yourself as better than someone else.
vincegamer
Active member
Phil,
I am not currently christian, but I was and I have had an extensive christian education.
The passage you quote is Jesus telling the disciples to bring swords with them to the garden, where someone has to cut off the ear of a servant so that he can perform his last miracle.
It is not a direction to always go about armed for self-defense.
I am not currently christian, but I was and I have had an extensive christian education.
The passage you quote is Jesus telling the disciples to bring swords with them to the garden, where someone has to cut off the ear of a servant so that he can perform his last miracle.
It is not a direction to always go about armed for self-defense.
@GreenOne - You know, hating people for where they come from or for their beliefs is just as horrible a prejudice as hating people for their race. Hatred is hatred. I was going to ask you to try and check your ignorance and prejudice at the door from now on, but I think I\'d really rather know what a person is really thinking, so I\'m glad you spewed out that load of absolutely putrid crap. Now at least we know where you are coming from. 
vincegamer
Active member
Dauber,
I\'d ask you to take back your words, but I shouldn\'t expect any better from a new yorker.
I\'d ask you to take back your words, but I shouldn\'t expect any better from a new yorker.
@EvilDave: I am happy to learn that you\'re not an asshole, I was not implying that either...
You\'ve been here long enough and implied in many of these argument raising threads enough to know comments are never aimed at anybody in particular and that offence is never intended nor taken and all that is to be assumed of any forum comment.
Or shall I add a disclaimer to my sig just to make sure?
I was stating this reminded me of the above-mentionned stereotype which I consider to be a dispeccable kind of person and added a geographic location to make the image conjured up more efficiently.
The individuals that ARE southern racist-evangelist-abduce-rednecks may very well be offended I care not, decent people from any possible locations should be aware I am not talking about them. I also wish to offend people from other locations that share the same bad traits, let aside
southern AND evangelist which are neither good or bad things except if used to give excuses to further those bad characteristics.
Was that nuanced enough for your liking ?
You\'ve been here long enough and implied in many of these argument raising threads enough to know comments are never aimed at anybody in particular and that offence is never intended nor taken and all that is to be assumed of any forum comment.
Or shall I add a disclaimer to my sig just to make sure?
I was stating this reminded me of the above-mentionned stereotype which I consider to be a dispeccable kind of person and added a geographic location to make the image conjured up more efficiently.
The individuals that ARE southern racist-evangelist-abduce-rednecks may very well be offended I care not, decent people from any possible locations should be aware I am not talking about them. I also wish to offend people from other locations that share the same bad traits, let aside
southern AND evangelist which are neither good or bad things except if used to give excuses to further those bad characteristics.
Was that nuanced enough for your liking ?
vincegamer
Active member
My sister used to have this saying for occasions like this:
\"Open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorously\"
\"Open mouth, insert foot, chew vigorously\"
darthfoley
Active member
One of the few times I\'ve ever wished things were a touch more Frother-y so I could correctly assign to one who needs it that word that starts and ends with \'t\' and has a \'wa\' in the middle.
/grumble
/grumble
@Dauber: I can only command you for the quality of your writting, that\'s very evocative.
It\'s always amusing to see how personally people can take things on a forum discussion,
In my every day speech and ways I am much more nuanced than this, but what would be the point in argumenting for the middle, there is plenty of arguments here for anyone to get a good perspective.
Sometime people miss the value of a good biased argumentation and a mild dose of added antagonism.
It\'s always amusing to see how personally people can take things on a forum discussion,
In my every day speech and ways I am much more nuanced than this, but what would be the point in argumenting for the middle, there is plenty of arguments here for anyone to get a good perspective.
Sometime people miss the value of a good biased argumentation and a mild dose of added antagonism.
philologus
Subgenius
We could debate about whether Christ asked them to carry a sword so he could perform a miracle. He told them ALL to purchase swords. When only 2 turned up he said that was sufficient. Christ would have known Peter would be the one to cut off Malchus\'s ear. Why not tell Peter only to purchase a sword? The scriptures show many instances where Christ was accosted with the intent of arrest or to cause Him bodily harm. These are almost always followed with the qualifier that the attempt failed because \"it was not the appointed time\". His arrest and subsequent crucifixion had to happen by a specific timeline (known only to Him) that would fulfill prophecy from the Tanakh. It is more likely that He told them to purchase swords so that they could defend themselves until the time was appropriate in the garden. Jesus\' response to Peter\'s rash action (rash because Christ had told the disciples that this would and must happen) is just another example of God turning a bad situation to good for His glory
philologus
Subgenius
Sorry for the DP, I\'ve spent about 20 years of my life in various parts of the South and have yet to meet one of the individuals described above.
vincegamer
Active member
but you were right to respond as you did.
Green One,
are you saying you just said that to get under people\'s skin and you don\'t actually believe people like that exist?
That would be the least offensive reason I can think of but even then it perpetuates a stereotype because some people will believe you and be encouraged in their (perceived) shared biggotry.
Green One,
are you saying you just said that to get under people\'s skin and you don\'t actually believe people like that exist?
That would be the least offensive reason I can think of but even then it perpetuates a stereotype because some people will believe you and be encouraged in their (perceived) shared biggotry.
