I didn\'t wanna bring it up, BUT...
- Thread starter DaN
- Start date
You can\'t really make much out of statistics like this. Yes, Switzerland seems like a peaceful country, but you can\'t draw the conclusion that it is because of guns. That way the US would also be a peaceful country, wouldn\'t it? Despite moans about restrictive gun laws America is a very gun liberal country, compared to most European countries at least.
Besides, the number of guns in Switzerland may be high, but does anyone know what laws they have concerning gun ownership? I would be very surprised if you\'re allowed to use the military gun you get to keep freely.
Besides, the number of guns in Switzerland may be high, but does anyone know what laws they have concerning gun ownership? I would be very surprised if you\'re allowed to use the military gun you get to keep freely.
WOW...I hoped that I don\'t have to read such bullshit here in the forums.
I really had to laugh when a friend told me that some NRA-guys said that that all could have been avoided if the other students had gun\'s, too. You know they shoot him before he shoot them. I really thought this is the dummest thing I\'ve ever heard. And I live in germany so I hear a lot of dumm things.
It makes me sad that some of the guys I adore for their painting skillz think the same.
Another thing I really had to laugh about is this: http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/2007/01/why_people_thin.html
And when I now think about that those idiots from this video are allowed the own firearms...omg! America must be great
P.S. Don\'t take this offensive...I live in a country where you don\'t have to carry a pistol to cross the streets alive...
I really had to laugh when a friend told me that some NRA-guys said that that all could have been avoided if the other students had gun\'s, too. You know they shoot him before he shoot them. I really thought this is the dummest thing I\'ve ever heard. And I live in germany so I hear a lot of dumm things.
It makes me sad that some of the guys I adore for their painting skillz think the same.
Another thing I really had to laugh about is this: http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/2007/01/why_people_thin.html
And when I now think about that those idiots from this video are allowed the own firearms...omg! America must be great
P.S. Don\'t take this offensive...I live in a country where you don\'t have to carry a pistol to cross the streets alive...
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
@milb: Reconsider what you just wrote. we don\'t want this to turn into an(other) american bashing thread.
What if I would say:
\"Hey you guys started 2 world wars, killed of 6 million jews and all loved a little screaming guy with a tiny moustasche. We\'re perfectly happy with you not owning as many guns anymore!\"
Not entirely friendly is it?
(please don\'t take offence.. but we\'ve been through this many times before)
What if I would say:
\"Hey you guys started 2 world wars, killed of 6 million jews and all loved a little screaming guy with a tiny moustasche. We\'re perfectly happy with you not owning as many guns anymore!\"
Not entirely friendly is it?
(please don\'t take offence.. but we\'ve been through this many times before)
Football hooligans mostly beat on each other. They very rarely attack normal people. Unless they get in the way... (which is one good reason to get rid of them...)
My point was that you can\'t use a \"good example\" like Switzerland as an argument for more liberal gun laws. Especially without mentioning what laws Switzerland actually have. I mean, I can say that Sweden is also a fairly peaceful place and we have very restrictive gun laws. But that doesn\'t say anything else than just that. I can\'t draw any conlcusions about America or the UK or any other country based on that fact.
Unless they get in the way... (which is one good reason to get rid of them...)My point was that you can\'t use a \"good example\" like Switzerland as an argument for more liberal gun laws. Especially without mentioning what laws Switzerland actually have. I mean, I can say that Sweden is also a fairly peaceful place and we have very restrictive gun laws. But that doesn\'t say anything else than just that. I can\'t draw any conlcusions about America or the UK or any other country based on that fact.
MPJ
New member
It\'s true that you can\'t draw the conclusion that Switzerlands relative peace is because of the guns, but many here are drawing the conclusion that the US violence is because of guns. I think the Switzerland argument goes a long way towards proving that guns are not the source of the problem.
I\'ve said it before and I\'m sure I\'ll say it again many times in my life... Disarmament of the people is the first step towards totalatarian control. If the people arn\'t armed then there is nothing to stop the government running roughshod. This has been enacted many, many, many times throught history and is still true today. It\'s somewhat interesting to note that the more socialistic/communistic a county the tighter the weapon laws. Also the less democratic a country the tighter the weapon laws.
In many cases the populations of more restrictive countries are happy with their situation, of course for hundreds/thousands of years the peasants/peons/undesireables were content with their lot in life too, all because of conditioning and putting their content spin on government control.
Guns are neither good nor evil, they are simply a tool. I for one will never give up my guns, no matter what the government says. Should handguns become outlawed in Canada (a day that is fast approaching) I will simply acuqire them illegially.
Now the real issue here isn\'t that this Cho nut-burger had gotten guns but that he was able to slip through the cracks as had been mentioned by others. Unfortunatlly that is a price we pay in a free society. You can\'t detain someone for a crime you think they might commit some day. Who would get to be the one who decides \"I think this guy might hurt people some day so we will not allow him to have a life, to participate in society\"? That\'s a hell of a lot of power over someone who hasn\'t done anything.
No Such Agency
New member
To be fair, of course, those guns are issued by the military and I imagine citizens are expected to store them properly, and not carry them around. I\'m not trying to address your larger point in any way, but comparing Switzerland\'s situation to the US seems a little shaky. Are the Swiss allowed to own/carry handguns and other personally owned firearms? I do not know...
I\'m not saying that the violence in American society stems from the liberal gun laws and the accessability of guns. The point is that in a violent society you get worse effects if people have access to more powerful weapons. And the other point is that increasing the availability of powerful weapons to enable \"good\" people to protect themselves only leads to more violence as the \"bad guys\" will adapt to the situation and use more effective methods. The idea that criminals would stop their activities because of fear of guns seems very naive to me.
In a mature and well-adjusted society that cared for people with mental-health issues, you could allow people to carry small, personal, tactical nuclear devices, but then of course, there would be no need...:innocent:
That is not a criticism of the US by the way...
There is of course a half-way house...
There is a world of difference between being able to protect oneself and family and the right to arm yourself to the teeth with automatic weapons that would be the envy of many third-world countries.
Perhaps ordinary citizens, outside of recognised militia, should have their access to arms restricted slightly..eg revolvers and nothing with a fast-fill capacity. That would at least potentially reduce the carnage whilst allowing folk to still feel \'safe\'.???
Just a thought...:flip:
That is not a criticism of the US by the way...
There is of course a half-way house...
There is a world of difference between being able to protect oneself and family and the right to arm yourself to the teeth with automatic weapons that would be the envy of many third-world countries.
Perhaps ordinary citizens, outside of recognised militia, should have their access to arms restricted slightly..eg revolvers and nothing with a fast-fill capacity. That would at least potentially reduce the carnage whilst allowing folk to still feel \'safe\'.???
Just a thought...:flip:
Huh! Sounds like a load of bullshit to me, mate.Originally posted by finn17
Now THAT! Is definitely the most perceptive post I have read in a long while
How about severely restricting gun production, perhaps for military or policing only? It won\'t help the guns that are already out there, of course.
How about severely restricting gun production, perhaps for military or policing only? It won\'t help the guns that are already out there, of course. [/quote]
That\'s a good idea, but governments don\'t see sense where industry is involved, especially the arms industry. And in UK, most illegal arms were manufactured elsewhere....most especially since the collapse of the old Soviet Union.
That is a very good point. And if \'regular\' citizens feel that need...so do the unsavory ones.
And, as so many of you are happy to point out...We cannot TRUST our government on anything....Yet you easily want us to completely put our protection in thier hands.
There have been many examples in the past years that has proven the Government CANNOT protect us...Hurricane Katrina for example. LA Riots is another.
BUT..that being said....there are several checks and waiting periods needed to legally buy a gun. The Commonwealth of Virginia doesn\'t seem to have very stringent ones.
What is wrong with waiting 7 or 30 days before being allowed to buy a pistol?
then by that rationale you cant make the same conclusions about america or anywhere for that matter. its not the fact that we have more lenient gun laws, its the type of people that americans are. some do these things and go on a crazy tirade. but please tell me of one country any of you know of that hasnt had some psychopath going all mad hatter on someone else.
didnt a school in russia have people held hostage a few years back and they killed a bunch of kids. lets not forget about the serin attacks on the subways in japan. no guns were used in that attack btw. when it comes down to it, it is not a fact of laws that are passed but the type of people that populate a country. everyone has nutters and thats all this guy was. a crazy kid who sadly lost it.
sadly the u.s. has had a lot of bashing at itself of late. the things our country has done are sad, but its like this...... we make news for the rest of the world to see. the u.s. is like paris hilton..... everyone watches and buys the papers all about her and how stupid she is when she falls down or makes an interesting video. people become jealous of her popularity and set her and others up to laugh at them. the same is to be said for the u.s. in a larger form. i am sure paris hilton does feel bad about some of the things she has done. much how the u.s. has as well. i live in america and love it here. yes i am upset by laws that have been passed and how things are handled but it does not always mean we are ALL insane gun toting cowboys. thats my neighbor instead lol
and btw i do not carry a gun to cross the street nor do i lock my doors at night.
Guns are only as dangerous as the people who carry them.
You need a LOT of training to be profficient in the use of a lethal weapon (cars are in that catergory as well ).One problem with the States is \"Inapropriate \" people can get access to them too easily.
GOD bless ,,,,.............VINCENTI
You need a LOT of training to be profficient in the use of a lethal weapon (cars are in that catergory as well ).One problem with the States is \"Inapropriate \" people can get access to them too easily.
GOD bless ,,,,.............VINCENTI
vincegamer
Active member
maybe this sort of thing happens more in the USA because our anti-bullying laws aren\'t as stringent.
