I didn\'t wanna bring it up, BUT...

[uberdark]

Originally posted by vincegamer
maybe this sort of thing happens more in the USA because our anti-bullying laws aren\'t as stringent.

i dont know about that one. as a kid who was picked on quite a bit and had a nickname that could destroy a man (mike seavers best friend from growing pains) i dont think that is the reason.

its just some people lose it. and whether or not they are picked on or not doesnt always mean they go postal. i certainly did not.

although this might explain my hatred for growing pains.

 

[vincegamer]

Kirk Cameron is enough to explain your hatred of growing pains.

 

[Bill]

Ideally, we could take everyone\'s guns away so that nobody would have to protect themselves from criminals with guns, then let only the military carry them; but gradually they wouldn\'t use them either because no one would make guns any more. Then there will be an end to all wars, and everyone will forget about weapons and stop killing each other!

See, it\'s not that hard to make a plan for world peace if you concentrate on only one tiny factor using impossible plans and assume the rest will go away

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Originally posted by reverend

Originally posted by Shawn R. L.
The criminals dont seem to respond to the over 20,000 gun laws on the books.

Maybe if we outlaw fire extinguishers there wont be any more fires.

Shawn, you can be a bit of a tit at times.

And when I consider that you, a bloke who is happy to tell everyone about his depression, wants to see everyone armed to make the world safer, I really do begin to worry about your mindset. I\'d never trust anyone with a gun who seems so gung-ho.

You do have a finessed way with words Phil.

I would think that you were smart enough to know that total black and white thinking doesn\'t have much to do with reality although it can slant a debate to an unfair and inaccurate conclusion.

BTW - Taking a shot at someone\'s disability is usually considered, to quote from your side of the pond, bad form.

 

[uberdark]

Originally posted by vincegamer
Kirk Cameron is enough to explain your hatred of growing pains.

yeah you wanna see something scary check this one out.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/

wait for it to load.

the worst part is that it used to say

\"hi i\'m kirk cameron if your a christian press one, if your not press two. \" a classic line.

 

[vincegamer]

that is pretty awful.
I just have no adequate words.

 

[uberdark]

oh come on your a lawyer arent you? you just gotta try to defend it. hehee.

 

[wiccanpony]

makes me so thankful I like in this Century and this Nation....... the \"Burning Times\" still can happen if we\'re not careful.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by uberdark

Originally posted by Ritual
You can\'t really make much out of statistics like this. Yes, Switzerland seems like a peaceful country, but you can\'t draw the conclusion that it is because of guns. .

then by that rationale you cant make the same conclusions about america or anywhere for that matter. its not the fact that we have more lenient gun laws, its the type of people that americans are. some do these things and go on a crazy tirade. but please tell me of one country any of you know of that hasnt had some psychopath going all mad hatter on someone else.

No, I\'m not drawing that conclusion. I said earlier that I do not think that violence in America is caused by the accessability of guns, only that in many cases the effects get worse because guns are readily available. That\'s all!

Of course bad things happen in other places and worse things too. We have had a serious downsizing of mental health care here, for instance, during the last 15-20 years and that has resulted in several bizarre acts of violence. Only a couple of them has involved guns though, as far as I remember.

 

[dauber22]

[ This is my third attempt to post a reply to this thread. The other two have been swallowed up in crashes. Undaunted, I shall attempt once more. ]

@DaN - as to your original point: that was kind of what I was getting at in my post in the VT thread. This amateur, and even \"professional\", psychoanalysis is almost all bogus and meaningless. It seems the only thing they are good at predicting are things that have already happened.

When I was younger, I was very much a loner, was picked on heavily, both verbally and physically, by both my peers and authority figures (police & school admins), I was questioned about the subject matter and content of many of my journal writings and much of my choice in reading materials (in particular, The Satanic Bible). I listened to the Devil\'s Music - Rock \'n\' Roll, Blues, R&B. I suffered (and still suffer) from severe depression. I\'ve even been institutionalized (all be it voluntarily). Amazingly enough though, I\'ve never gone on a merciless killing rampage. (at least not yet, as Vince so astutely pointed out )

Like it or not, some things just aren\'t preventable or predictable. That is unless you believe in eugenics and the trampling of personal rights & freedoms.

And just a short note to those of you who are smugly positive that these things are caused directly by the US\'s lax gun laws:

The Three Worst School Shooting Incidents

1 - Virginia Tech, 2007 - 33 dead

2 - Dunblane, Scotland, 1996 - 18 dead

3 - Erfurt, Germany, 2002 - 17 dead

Unless I\'m mistaken, neither Scotland not Germany is in the US and both have rather restrictive gun laws. It would be a wonderful world if simply banning all guns would actually stop killings, but sadly I\'m afraid it doesn\'t work that way.

 

[Ritual]

@dauber
No, banning (or rather restricting) guns won\'t stop things like this from happening alltogether, but I am fairly sure it would happen less often. More informative statistics would be how MANY school shootings Germany or the UK have had...

 

[Swordwind]

The government wanting to take away the Americans toys is treated like thier chilren are being kidnapped by the CIA, placed in tiny cages and raped daily by the Taliban.

Just look at the Falklands! They live in the very really fear that Argentina will try for round 2 and you dont see them shooting each other in the face because they took your parking spot.

Edit: One school shooting and one machete attack in the UK and it was Dunblane that caused the banning of all handguns and similar in the UK. Also doesnt that list miss out the most obvious? Beslan, with over 300 casualties?

 

[DaN]

\"Guns don\'t kill people. Wappa\'s do.\"

@ Sword -Beslan, though, was a TERRORIST atrocity, with a number of Chechnyan (?) Rebels, rather than 1 crazed loony.

 

[dauber22]

@Ritual -
Yes, I know. We have many too many of these incidents here. My point was that it IS NOT a purely American phenomena. And it was not meant to counter all the anti-gun comments. It was directed specifically at those who (predictably) show up in these sorts of threads and write everything off to those damn Americans. We definitely have more than our share of these types of incidents and , no doubt, some of it may be because of the accessibility of fire arms. However, we DO NOT have a corner on the violence & wacko market in the world and are NOT the source of everything that\'s wrong.

By the way, I NEVER find your comments to be smug On the contrary, I find your comments to be well thought out and quite heartfelt. I respect that very much, even when we disagree.

@DaN -
Exactly why I left Beslan out. :yes:

 

[diddy lemon1]

Originally posted by Shawn R. L.
Agree with much of the afore mentioned and will add my own rant.....

IT DIDNT HAVE TO HAPPEN!!! Virginia Tech proudly proclaimed itself a \'gun free\' campus! Guess Mr Cho didnt get the memo. I\'m to the point of vomiting from those who would disarm the us good citizens and leave us DEFENSLESS in this type of situation.............Note to criminals - THEY\'re UNARMED! GO FOR IT!! They\'re easy picking.

If you have such a desire to not defend yourself, FINE....Dont ask me to cry when you are confronted with vicious evil and all you\'re armed with is Give Peace a Chance...No thanks. I\'m past the point of debating the whole gun issue. If VT dosent get through to you then NOTHING will. You dont like armed citizens - FINE. Dont get a gun. BUT dont you dare tell us responsible citizens, that recognise that the world is a rough place, that we cant take steps to protect ourselves!!

All those poor dead kids. Shot in a gun free paradise..............:cussing: It didnt have to happen. Some good citizen packing could have stopped it. The police, God bless em\', cant be there fast enough..............

IT DIDNT HAVE TO HAPPEN!!

so to stop people killing each other give everyone guns....

 

[finn17]

This debate is always entertaining but....

Europeans and Americans just cannot understand each other\'s stance in this area. It\'s not possible..don\'t even try...

In the UK, they\'d ban knives, if they could figure out a way to do it that would make legal sense...In fact all sharp. pointy objects would be illegal...:innocent: We are so very close to banning boxing..???
Well, people shouldn\'t hit each other....

Europeans genuinely don\'t realise that to a lot of Americans...suggesting arms control is akin to suggesting hammer or screwdriver control..it just isn\'t acceptable.

 

[supervike]

ban all arms!!

Not weapon arms...actual arms!

You can\'t kill anyone without arms!

Maybe just hands would be good enough.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by finn17
Europeans genuinely don\'t realise that to a lot of Americans...suggesting arms control is akin to suggesting hammer or screwdriver control..it just isn\'t acceptable.

I think that is a bit of a stretch, but still a very valid point. America\'s culture was to have guns...to expand westward, to fight off a tyrannical empire, etc. etc. Maybe its another stretch to say we still NEED them, but many of us do feel we have the right to have them.

Meanwhile, many Europeon\'s had their guns taken away by leaders who were scared they\'d lose power.

 

[Swordwind]

Of course the Hungarians had their guns taken off them and they still did a great job of rising up against the Soviets. The only reason they were put down is because the help Eisenhower promised them never turned up and it came down to students with stolen army rifles and petrol bombs against Spetsnaz and T-52\'s.

 

[matty1001]

Originally posted by finn17
This debate is always entertaining but....

Europeans and Americans just cannot understand each other\'s stance in this area. It\'s not possible..don\'t even try...

In the UK, they\'d ban knives, if they could figure out a way to do it that would make legal sense...In fact all sharp. pointy objects would be illegal...:innocent: We are so very close to banning boxing..???
Well, people shouldn\'t hit each other....

Europeans genuinely don\'t realise that to a lot of Americans...suggesting arms control is akin to suggesting hammer or screwdriver control..it just isn\'t acceptable.

That puts it perfectly.

I made this assumption after the last forum gun war, which is why I just stay out of them nowadays.