My red fish has died ...

[Avicenna]

Originally posted by Dammekkos2
I was in the library the other day, sitting at a computer, the librarian walked into the centre of the room and said \"We are now holding a two minute silence to remember the victims of the London tube bombings.\"

Bit of a touchy subject for me here, but I will go on anyway....

I can agree with Klute\'s sentiment, but I am afraid I cant actually agree with your choice of example. IMO there is a BIG difference between the subject of footballers killing themselves with alcohol and 50 innocents being killed and many more injured by terrorist action.

I have actually had this discussion with a work colleague just recently... For me, the two minutes silence for the victims of the bombings was a way of standing shoulder to shoulder with those people who have to endure the consequences of such actions, to show solidarity and support for those people who are still here and still affected by it. I dont think it lessens the moments we take to think of all those people who have sacrificed themselves for the freedom of others, those courageous people who willingly put themselves in the firing line to make sure those at home can sleep at night. These people have entire days dedicated to them; parades, church services and speeches by the politicians that put them there. They also get this every year - I dont think people are going to forget them just yet. However innocent people caught in the middle of these situations get not a moments thought passed the initial media frenzy - I dont think one moment on the first anniversary of the tragedy is too much to ask.

We also discussed other disasters like the mass genocides in certain parts of Africa, and other terrorist actions around the world. We could hold 2 minutes silences for them as a \'global community\' but in reality we are not... yet. I think people find it difficult to focus on things so far removed from their own environment, so when it happens in our own capital city it strikes a chord more than something happening 4000 miles away. But it doesnt make their problems less tragic or less important, just more removed.

However, I guess the opposite can work too - maybe the fact that I worked just at the window by where the bus blew up means that I can empathise too much with the victims, and the fact that the guy I would have been sat next to (if I hadnt moved down to Devon to be with Tooshy) still has time off for post traumatic stress after helping move casualties into the BMA building means I am a little closer to the incident.

What exactly made you feel like a fraud? You didnt care that people died? or that you felt like a fraud because you didnt agree with the silence?

-Peter

 

[Dammekkos2]

Partly the thing that made me feel like a fraud was the fact that I neither knew nor card for any of these people (which is not to say that I was in any way happy that they died of course), but that was only part of it. The main thing was the fact that horrible things happen every day and we don\'t hold silences for them. I think holding a silence is altogether pointless in this context anyway. Sitting in a library, surfing the net. I\'m sure i would have been silent anyway, it meant nothing. Yes, at a football stadium (for the Hillsborough people, not George Best), but in a public library?

ok fair enough this was a disaster close to home, but even then there have been others in the past that I don\'t remember doing this for, IRA bombings, sinking ferries etc etc. Did we do one for the kids that died at Dunblane? I can\'t remember really, these silences tend not to stick in my memory. I remember the one for the Tsunami victims, but again, as someone who didn\'t lose anyone in that particular disaster, me taking part in that achieved nothing for myself or any of the berieved families.

The fact that it was a two minute silence annoyed me slightly too. Not that I minded being silent for two minutes, as I say I was in a library, just the fact that it was \"Oooh, gotta go better than 1 minute silence for this\", as if we are trying to \"out-do\" the respect paid victims of other disasters. Why was it 2 minutes instead of 1? I\'m not sure that there is a logical explaination for this, I would like to hear it though if it\'s out there.

I know I\'m cynical, but we need cynics.

 

[frenchkid]

dammekkos sums up the way I feel pretty well. The only one minut silence that ever had any meaning to me was the nine elven one in my school, and that was because I knew sombody who was a victime. But that one minute silence also anoyed me, having all those people keep quiet when more then half of them didn\'t give a rat\'s ass about the victime just seems wrong to me. Like somthing we do out of obligation adn that in the end as no true meaning behind it. We just end up living behind good looking lies and true respect gets lost in all the hypocrisy.

 

[Avicenna]

We held 2 minutes silence for Dunblane, or we certainly did at my school. It is a mark of respect, and in my opinion it was good that you held even though you didnt agree with it - it shows character and an appreciation of others feelings/wishes. Here at work, people were taking the piss even though they knew it was important to me.

I guess there is just a general trend towards a society of disrespect (this statement is not aimed at you guys) but I think it is important not to let the hypocrits tarnish your whole view on life. There are some people genuinely paying their respects - i diverted my phones and switched off my monitor and pretty much meditated on it for the 2 minutes.

re 2 vs 1 minute, hasnt it always been 2?

 

[Modderrhu]

Peter, that silence obviously means a lot more to you than most, and I think that your attitude towards that short period of silence is far more important than the length of the silence.

Didn\'t the one-minute thing start with the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month? So far as I know, it\'s always been one minute, and I have to agree with Dammekkos, two minutes of silence to out-respect some other event seems a bit pretentious. It\'s the attitude that counts, not how long you can bow your head for.

 

[Torn blue sky]

I fully agree with Modderrhu. It is truly the attitude that counts.
The one minute silence did indeed come out of respect from the great wars dead at the moment the guns fell silent.
Note also, that the silence at this time was not only to show respect and reflection on the part of the Allied side, but for all the men that fell in the war.
If we were to fall silent for all the atrocities and deaths in the world, we would all become mute. It\'s more important that we remember that these things are still going on in the world and to bond in nations in a mark of solidarity and mutual respect.
No one can truly stop these events from occuring, but we can at least be mindfull.

 

[airhead]

Originally posted by frenchkid
...just seems wrong to me. Like somthing we do out of obligation and that in the end as no true meaning behind it. We just end up living behind good looking lies and true respect gets lost in all the hypocrisy.

In the military, you salute superior officers. You may not know that person, but only see the rank, yet you give them respect because he has earned it.

Giving the victims of terrorist actions is paying respect for those that have innocently been caught up in a war. I have family members on the wall of the Oklahoma City Memorial and I still give them a moment.

I didn\'t know anyone in the World Trade Towers nor the London bombings (thankfully), but I still respect the loss.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Avicenna

I guess there is just a general trend towards a society of disrespect (this statement is not aimed at you guys) but I think it is important not to let the hypocrits tarnish your whole view on life.

I was thinking the opposite was the case in all fairness, with the media blindly leading people into developing a society of rubbernecking folk. Insincerity, vicariousness (in the negative sense) and oversensitivity...it\'s enough to make a grown man cry

 

[Avicenna]

Maybe its a polarisation in that case with people recoiling against societies expectations

 

[Dammekkos2]

Originally posted by reverend

Originally posted by Avicenna

I guess there is just a general trend towards a society of disrespect (this statement is not aimed at you guys) but I think it is important not to let the hypocrits tarnish your whole view on life.

I was thinking the opposite was the case in all fairness, with the media blindly leading people into developing a society of rubbernecking folk. Insincerity, vicariousness (in the negative sense) and oversensitivity...it\'s enough to make a grown man cry

Indeed, I hate to use the old cliche, but I couldn\'t have put it better myself, that\'s the sentiment I was trying (and failing) to express (the media bit especially. I feel that we are encouraged to participate in false shows of emotion to somehow prove that we are all good, decent human beings). I have infinite respect for anyone such as yourself Peter that feels the true sentiment being expressed by these organised silences, but sadly I suspect that most people are simply going along with the crowd.

 

[Infidel Castro]

This has been the most interesting topic all summer long so far. A pat on the back for our sensibilities!

Polarisation could well be the new word for our disaffected times lol

 

[frenchkid]

Originally posted by reverend
This has been the most interesting topic all summer long so far. A pat on the back for our sensibilities!

Polarisation could well be the new word for our disaffected times lol

You know, when I posted the original post I was thinking you\'d definetly be one of the personne not running around to hang me. Wonder why....

And I\'ll seconde what rev said, his command of english beeing much better then mine I\'m left stealing his phrases

 

[penguin]

I stayed out of this thread for ages, but maybe it\'s time I put my views here. On silences: What dammekkos said. On finding solace in the forums: Arthur was harsh, but I can see his point. However, different people grieve differently and may or may not find great value in posting their feelings here. I don\'t know if I would if something terrible happened to someone important to me, but I\'ll respect the views of both sides.

There, I just waited for things to calm down and everyone else to say my own views so I could copy them

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by frenchkid


You know, when I posted the original post I was thinking you\'d definetly be one of the personne not running around to hang me. Wonder why....

Because I\'m not too hysterical My advice is to never spread yourself too thin. Be in the right place at the right time for the right people and keep grief and emotion between select people who understand one and another.

 

[Zora]

I wouldn\'t consider myself hysterical, either.

However, even though I have yet to lose anyone very close to me, I WILL continue to empathize with others\' loss and I encourage anyone else who feels the same way to not be discouraged by the comments in this thread.

I think the rule of thumb is: Do what feels right to you.

 

[vincegamer]

Celebrity deaths

The only celebrity whose passing I mourned was Charles Schultz. Part of my childhood died with him.

 

[vincegamer]

On a similar note

I figure this is a pretty good place to place this notice.


I just had to have the cat shown in this 8-year-old picture with me put down this morning. His kidney disease finally got the better of him and he stopped eating, refusing even salmon. I\'d had him longer than I\'ve had a wife.

 

[supervike]

I wish...

someone would post an obituary for this thread....


EDIT....ACK....I posted this right as Vince was posting his cat thing....no offense Vince....

 

[Zora]

Sorry to hear about your loss, Vince. I know what it\'s like to lose a pet, but can\'t imagine what it would be like to have to do it voluntarily.

 

[vincegamer]

Yeah, I\'d never done that before.
It\'s very hard when he\'s lying there looking at you, but I know it\'s best. On the way to the vet I passed a dead fox in the road. I thought: at least Buddy will get a better end than that.