Pets are getting more protection in the USA

[funnymouth]

one sick...um...puppy? its cool that they are protecting the animal. i guess we\'re down with that as long as its a cute and fluffy domesticated dog - but if it were wildlife, and we were going to bulldose its home? just about the only people who would care would be the animal rights people and conservationists (like myself).

can of worms:
as far as lab animals are concerned - when i was an undergrad i worked in an environmental tox lab, where i injected rats with manganese (a metal/toxin). sometimes they screamed and died in my hands. they suffered, they became brain damaged. at the end of the study, we put their heads in plastic frosting bags, and decapitated them with a tiny rat sized gillotine. it was horrible, and i will never work in toxicology again. why was it done? for reaserching the brain chemistry of parkinsons and manganism - research which may lead to a cure that will help millions of people with a wide variety of brain effecting conditions. i guess its a necessary evil, if we want to help people. other than the injections, and sacrificing (killing the animals for brain tissue) them they were treated very well - and with kindness, concern, and veterenary care. are you going to criticise me? dont be so fast. do you eat meat? you might not find you steak so appitizing if you saw its life, and its ugly death by smashing its head. fishing is no big deal when compared to animal research...until you consider that the fish might be older than you (and often is) and how excrutiating it must be to have your internal organs rupture on the way to the surface. our world is a mean one - yesterday i saw a clip from an attack helicopter on ebaums killing men at what must have been a weapons buy warning - heliocopter kills containing graphic video. no one would question the importance of this though. whats the difference?

 

[treide]

@funnymouth - good points.

I don\'t see any way around having lab animals - a necessary evil to find cures for disease.

As far as hunting, fishing and the meat industry are concerned, I can\'t wait until technology allows us to synthesize food that actually tastes like the real thing. Eliminate the need for killing animals for food altogether. That or we all become vegetarians!

I find it interesting how some of the \"new\" foodborne illnesses are popping up - mad cow disease, chronic wasting disease in elk, concentrated toxins in seafood, lethal variants of E. coli, and so on. Maybe Mother Nature is taking matters into her own hand? It can take up to 10 years for mad cow disease to show up. Better start painting your minis now!

 

[leopardpixie]

Beat him to the ssame extent as which the dog was... see how he likes it!

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by funnymouth
i guess we\'re down with that as long as its a cute and fluffy domesticated dog - but if it were wildlife, and we were going to bulldose its home? just about the only people who would care would be the animal rights people and conservationists (like myself).

And hunters. I read an article recently about how President Bush is losign the support of the NRA because of his permitting open space to be cleared and developed. Environmentalists and hunters both want big undeveloped areas.

other than the injections, and sacrificing (killing the animals for brain tissue) them they were treated very well - and with kindness, concern, and veterenary care. are you going to criticise me? dont be so fast. do you eat meat?

My wife\'s employment has caused her to watch many medical trial runs done on animals. Animals used for medical trials are far better treated than food animals and in the end are often annesthetised when killed, unlike food animals.
I heard some Kosher slaughter houses are even getting in trouble for not meeting the USDA\'s limited requirements for humane treatment of animals.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by vincegamer
I heard some Kosher slaughter houses are even getting in trouble for not meeting the USDA\'s limited requirements for humane treatment of animals.

Yup, just up the road from me there is a large kosher slaughterhouse. There has been much grumbling about the way the animals are killed. Grumbling from Animal Rights Activists.


Interesting side note about that town:

Northeast Iowa has a small town filled with Hassidic Jews, Mexican and Russian Emmigrants....all which occured relatively recently. The small town, Postville, was traditionally a Protestant German/Scandinavian descendant \'normal\' Iowa farm town.

The microcosm of cultures has caused rifts, changed lifes, and has become quite the study of a modern day melting pot.

 

[Torn blue sky]

There are cirtain issues that become very blury. Vegetarians believe that eating meat is wrong, ok personal view noted. I\'m not a vegetarian and I see eating meat as a natural instinct and nessesity to replenish protiens and minerals. Are lions or Gators evil creatures because they literally shred animals alive to feed? No theyre animals, it\'s what they do. To think were above the need to kill animals for food is insane! Take for example a lion taking down an antelope. It\'s usually only half dead befor it has the flesh torn from it\'s hide! Iv\'e been to an abbetoir with some of the folk from the army to see cattle being slaughtered and butchered, and I can tell you theres NO suffering in the animals death.
This is an example, but where does it all stop? And how can the lines ever be clearly defined?

 

[Rancor pilot]

Pets?

I\'m a little confused about the topic of your question. The animals you refer to, i.e. animals born and bred for slaughter, are not \"pets.\"

I think you answered all of your own questions in the phrase \"ok personal view noted.\" It\'s a personal view. There are a few vegetarians who believe that NO ONE should eat meat, but for the majority of them, it is simply a personal lifestyle choice like so many others that people make. Humans, like dogs and other primates, are omnivores, meaning that if there is no meat available, they can survive on other foods. Meaning that not eating meat is an option. Big cats and many other animals are true carnivores, meaning that if they do not have meat, they will eventually die of malnutrition. And yes, you are right, that is the natural cycle of things... and removing carnivores from the food chain would only result in an overpopulation of herbivores.

 

[vincegamer]

I\'m a little confused by yours, rancor.

Was \"Pets?\" supposed to be answering, as in that\'s where you draw the line?

If so, it\'s not a good line. I knew someone once who had a pet cow.

 

[EArkham]

Originally posted by Rancor pilot
Humans, like dogs and other primates, are omnivores, meaning that if there is no meat available, they can survive on other foods. Meaning that not eating meat is an option.

Not entirely true. A strict long term vegetarian diet will make a human malnourished. Likewise a long term meat-only diet is also a problem. Long term vegetarians always require supplemental vitamins, or a diet that isn\'t as strict as they may claim.

I\'m an ex-vegetarian. It was not a choice made out of any morale compulsion, but because at the time I thought it was healthier. As I found out, no one type of food provides all we need. You have to add protein sources like eggs and chicken to a diet.

On the other extreme, I don\'t think anyone thinks that lots of steak, beer, and donuts is a healthy diet.

Moral of the story, of course, is that we\'re not designed to go to freakin\' extremes with what we eat in either direction. <g>

Kep

 

[clover]

My wife and I are mostly vegetarian. We dont eat cow,pork,or chicken. It\'s more because of the quality of life that the animals have on factory farms. I recognize that we can only get some nutrition from animals, thats fine. But I don\'t agree with raising an animal in a cage so small that it cant stand up, turn around, or scratch an itch. It\'s discusting to think about. Can you even imagine how f:evil:ked up you would be if you lived your life in a cage like that! Not to mention being fed the ground up parts of your fellow creatures. This is an even bigger problem for herbivores.

I don\'t have much of a problem with how the animals are killed, for the most part it is done quickly and without much pain. In order for one creature to live another has to die. That is the way of our world.

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by vincegamer
I knew someone once who had a pet cow.

We had a pet cow, or more appropriately a pet steer (you normally don\'t slaughter cows for meat). We named him STUBBS, and we pet him, and cared for him like any other pet. Then when the time came, we ate him.

He was a good pet, and very delicious.

The further we are removed from our food sources, (ie just buying it in the stores) the easier it is coming up with some sort of morality to it.

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by clover
We dont eat cow,pork,or chicken. It\'s more because of the quality of life that the animals have on factory farms.
. . .
I don\'t have much of a problem with how the animals are killed, for the most part it is done quickly and without much pain.

So how do you feel about fur? Those animals live in horid conditions and are killed painfully. Do you use fur brushes?

 

[philologus]

Originally posted by supervike

Originally posted by vincegamer
I knew someone once who had a pet cow.

We had a pet cow, or more appropriately a pet steer (you normally don\'t slaughter cows for meat). We named him STUBBS, and we pet him, and cared for him like any other pet. Then when the time came, we ate him.

He was a good pet, and very delicious.

The further we are removed from our food sources, (ie just buying it in the stores) the easier it is coming up with some sort of morality to it.

Growing up on farms in Illinois, my family and I repeated this same scenario many times, many \"pets\". They never got any less tasty.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Torn blue sky
Are lions or Gators evil creatures because they literally shred animals alive to feed? No theyre animals, it\'s what they do. To think were above the need to kill animals for food is insane! Take for example a lion taking down an antelope. It\'s usually only half dead befor it has the flesh torn from it\'s hide! Iv\'e been to an abbetoir with some of the folk from the army to see cattle being slaughtered and butchered, and I can tell you theres NO suffering in the animals death.

Well said, though I think that wild predators almost always kill or severely incapacitate their prey before eating - that bite to the spine or throat has evolved for a loooong time to be very deadly. But it is true that eating meat is not \"unnatural\" or unhealthy - not even for great apes like us.

The thing that sets us apart is not our diet, but our capacity to choose, and to understand the nature of death/suffering. We can choose to not eat meat, and instead find other sources of complete protein. We can extend out understanding of suffering beyond out own species.

I eat meat in moderation, and I work in a lab that uses animals for experimentation. The former I justify by my belief that killing animals for food is not intrinsically wrong, the latter by the fact that modern Animal Use Protocols demand an absolute minimum number of animals used, and a minimum of suffering. And using animals for scientific/medical research is a lot different than using them for cosmetics testing, no matter what PETA says.

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by vincegamer
So how do you feel about fur? Those animals live in horid conditions and are killed painfully. Do you use fur brushes?

Now that I DO feel guilty about. I own two Series 7\'s and I hope they last a long, long time.

 

[MPJ]

The only thing better than a dead animal on my plate is umm... Another dead animal in my fridge for the next meal.

Watched a show the other day on the cruel treatment of chickens. I really felt bad for the poor little birdies but must admit I started getting really hungrey and had a craving for KFC which I satisfied afterwards (gotta love Kentucky Fried Chicken).

Is the lion evil or mean for eating the gazell? No, of course not, it\'s just being a lion. Are people evil or mean for eating cow? Again of coruse not, they are just being people. Lest we forget we too are animals.

We were made (by God, genetics, pure luck, whatever you believe) for the exploitation of animals, pure and simple. Without them we would not be where we are today. Like it or not that\'s just the way it is.

 

[funnymouth]

Originally posted by vincegamer
And hunters. I read an article recently about how President Bush is losign the support of the NRA because of his permitting open space to be cleared and developed. Environmentalists and hunters both want big undeveloped areas.

very true - big game hunters are some of the largest donators to land purchases and research.

 

[treide]

We were made (by God, genetics, pure luck, whatever you believe) for the exploitation of animals, pure and simple. Without them we would not be where we are today. Like it or not that\'s just the way it is.

Have to disagree on that point. Certainly we have the capability to exploit animals. We also have the capability fire a firearm at a neighbor, take advantage of an impressionable child, or commit adultery. That doesn\'t mean that we should. We fortunately have also been equipped with critical reasoning skills, empathy, and the ability to learn from past mistakes. Hopefully we use those skills.

The current animal food industry is not sustainable indefinitely. Overcrowding and unsanitary practices in these industries is leading to propagation of disease that is coming back to bite us. That doesn\'t even take into account the environmental effects of these industries. In other words, we may be ordering Soilant Green burgers at McDonald\'s in the not too distant future.

 

[philologus]

MMMMMMMM......Soylent Green. :bouncy:

 

[Swordwind]

Anyone read 2000AD Judge Dredd where all the food is people?