Rules Lawyers (
- Thread starter No Such Agency
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One thing, I guess I distinguish between haggling over th meaning of a rule and adopting the view that you have to stick with the precise letter of teh rule. In RPGs, I and my friends will often spend 10-15 minutes reading the speciifics of a rule and trying to decide what it means. Then we make a decision. Sometimes we stick wit the rule and sometimes we do something different. The rules lawyers is just FYI as far as we\'re concerned. It\'s the ones who feel obligated to follow a ruleto its illogical conclusion that drive me batt.
...but I suppose I already said that.
...but I suppose I already said that.
That sounds an awful lot like discrimination there, Vikey.
lol
So if I exploited the rules to my benefit but not to anyone else\'s then I wasn\'t a rules lawyer? I also didn\'t make up or forget anything concerning my own character or anyone elses, so I wasn\'t a cheat eaither. Hmmmmmmm....
I Know!!! I am a Rules A-Hole!!!
To a novice, the end result is the same... you are frustrated by your inability to affect the game and lack the knowledge to challenge any of the rules explanations.
At the same time you don\'t want to be the dork challenging every last rule. I just met a fellow who had a bad experience with a Warmachine game where his opponenet wouldn\'t accept the stats on the unit cards and demanded to see the unit\'s stats in the rulebook. Of course, all this guy had was a copy of Primal on him to use as a rules reference....
vincegamer
Active member
ah, but look at my prior statement. If you are teaching someone (i.e. that person is a novice) then you are to blame for exploiting the rules he doesn\'t know because you have to assume he doesn\'t know ANY of the rules.
The net result is as bad for the rules exploiter, because odds are he\'s lost an opponent.
diddy lemon1
Member
its good knowing al the rules cause i play alot of shess adn i normally win coz i know qa load of neat little tricks that you can use and arnt cheating
e.g. if u move a pawn 2 space sofrward you canmove it diagonally on the next move
e.g. if u move a pawn 2 space sofrward you canmove it diagonally on the next move
I don\'t think your example is correct. You can only move your pawn diagonally if capturing an opponents piece. You can use EN PASSANT (moving diagonally, while capturing the pawn behind you) if the opposing pawn moved forward two spaces on its first move ONLY to avoid you being able to capture it had moved only one. If you choose not to use the EN PASSANT on your next move, you forfiet the right to do it.
dougaderly
New member
It\'s funny, because I am a rules lawyer but I find I lose every match I play when I teach someone how to play because I\'m telling them every move before hand what I\'m going to do, I end up getting massacred. So if they act nice we play another game and I play by all the rules, but just remind them of all of their options on their turn. then their on their own. If they gloat over the victory, I slaughter them the second game as an ego check lol
We had one of those game-trainers from PP come to the store all the time and train people, and he always lost too. Thing was, he was a great player when not training. We used to think it was to get people into the game, since totallly crushing them would probably turn off a new player. Now I see there might have actually been a logical reason behind his 100% lose rate to newbs.
TaintedBrush
New member
Yes, at a time when I was REALLY getting into painting and collecting minis, a fellow gamer of mine completely turned me off to WFB, as he did something similar.
Here I was, poised to start a new mini addiction, and he teaches me this game without telling me most of the rules.
My favorite one: \"This gun only shoots so far.\" I move my unit up to about 2\" out of his range. Next turn he shoots and when I say it\'s out of range, he informs me that it only SHOOTS so far, but the cannonball actually bounces and travels an additional 2d6 inches beyond that.
Wiped out my unit. That was the last time I ever played WFB.
Here I was, poised to start a new mini addiction, and he teaches me this game without telling me most of the rules.
My favorite one: \"This gun only shoots so far.\" I move my unit up to about 2\" out of his range. Next turn he shoots and when I say it\'s out of range, he informs me that it only SHOOTS so far, but the cannonball actually bounces and travels an additional 2d6 inches beyond that.
Wiped out my unit. That was the last time I ever played WFB.
farseerlum
New member
i really don\'t understand reactions like that zora.
i mean sure it was dirty thing to do to you but surely if your were interested in the game you would have then read up on the rules yourself and then played again later with a bit more knowledge about the game.
a person who is teaching a game as complicated as WFB can\'t possibly tell you all the rules before the game and theres even less chance of you remembering them.
i think if you want to learrn a new game then you just have to go through boot. take your licks while you get the hang of it. expecting people to play dumb during that phase is a bit much.
most people who know your learning will go out of their way to show you some of their armies tricks to help. aren\'t they nice! lol
i mean sure it was dirty thing to do to you but surely if your were interested in the game you would have then read up on the rules yourself and then played again later with a bit more knowledge about the game.
a person who is teaching a game as complicated as WFB can\'t possibly tell you all the rules before the game and theres even less chance of you remembering them.
i think if you want to learrn a new game then you just have to go through boot. take your licks while you get the hang of it. expecting people to play dumb during that phase is a bit much.
most people who know your learning will go out of their way to show you some of their armies tricks to help. aren\'t they nice! lol
vincegamer
Active member
I\'m with Zora.
I\'m not saying throw the game, as some people seem to do. Just don\'t roll all over the newbie or in Zora\'s case actually mislead the newbie.
I\'ve taught a LOT of games and I can tell you, trouncing a newbie inspires maybe 5% of people to do the legwork and come back on their own. The other 95% go away and don\'t come back.
The best I\'ve seen is if you see the student doing something foolish or misguided (like deliberately moving out of what you told them was the range of your cannon, when you didn\'t explain rolling) then warn them. Explain what you can do if they do that.
What pleasure is there in beating someone who lacks the basic knowledge of the rules?
I could beat a 5-year-old in a drag race any day, but why would I want to?
I\'m not saying throw the game, as some people seem to do. Just don\'t roll all over the newbie or in Zora\'s case actually mislead the newbie.
I\'ve taught a LOT of games and I can tell you, trouncing a newbie inspires maybe 5% of people to do the legwork and come back on their own. The other 95% go away and don\'t come back.
The best I\'ve seen is if you see the student doing something foolish or misguided (like deliberately moving out of what you told them was the range of your cannon, when you didn\'t explain rolling) then warn them. Explain what you can do if they do that.
What pleasure is there in beating someone who lacks the basic knowledge of the rules?
I could beat a 5-year-old in a drag race any day, but why would I want to?
farseerlum
New member
so you think that since your new you\'ll lose but you\'d reather not have them pull out rules they themselves probablly forgot until the situation arose?
i guess he also didn\'t have time to mention about misfires, deviations and possible psychology also.
i stand by my assertion that even the most well meaning teacher can\'t possably avoid \"springing\" rules that you didn\'t know about when you don\'t know any rules.
i guess he also didn\'t have time to mention about misfires, deviations and possible psychology also.
i stand by my assertion that even the most well meaning teacher can\'t possably avoid \"springing\" rules that you didn\'t know about when you don\'t know any rules.
TaintedBrush
New member
A friend of mine tried to issue a challenge with a Stegadon (Not a character riding it, mind you, but the beast itself!).
Then rose his voice and tried to argue about it...
Then rose his voice and tried to argue about it...
Yeah, well this wasn\'t the best way to teach somebody the new rules.
I tend to do the opposite...explain EVERYthing as it comes up. I go so far as to show them how best to exploit what I\'ve done. Usually I get trounced by the \"student\", but when they feel you\'ve been honest with them and only want to help them to have fun, it works much better.
I tend to do the opposite...explain EVERYthing as it comes up. I go so far as to show them how best to exploit what I\'ve done. Usually I get trounced by the \"student\", but when they feel you\'ve been honest with them and only want to help them to have fun, it works much better.
farseerlum
New member
don\'t get me wrong zora. i\'m not defending their rules teaching method.
i\'m just saying one jackass wouldn\'t stop me from learning a game i thought was cool.
but i guess i\'m more bullish than most and wouldn\'t be worried about things like that.
i\'m just saying one jackass wouldn\'t stop me from learning a game i thought was cool.
but i guess i\'m more bullish than most and wouldn\'t be worried about things like that.
