Should Fluff be a factor? - Ainu's Mini of the Week: Sergeant Deathwing Conversion By PATOUZE

[AinuLainour]

Should Fluff be a factor? - Ainu's Mini of the Week: Sergeant Deathwing Conversion By PATOUZE

This week has been a doozy I'll tell you that. Since Saturday I've been sick with a strong form of the cold that has left me tired and sore everywhere in my head. But luckily my passion for miniatures has not diminished in this time, and so between lying on the couch coughing and converting GD entries, I've been searching CMoN for an interesting subject miniature.

I have certainly found the perfect subject, may I say.

As the gallery pages of new entries went by, I noticed the work of one artist in particuliar, PATOUZE, who had submitted many pictures of his Deathwing Terminators, that were painted with black armour. Naturally, Dark Angel and GW fluff-masters aren't going to like his version of their lovable shamed chapter, but how will they vote?

From comments and hearing at local stores, it matters quite a bit if there is a mini that does not follow the background, or even rules set by the game designers and writers. But should miniatures on CMoN be scored according to their fluff accuracy? In competitions such as Golden Demon, it would certainly matter as if the so-called Deathwing Terminator placed, there would be people confused and arguing about what this meant of the official background and the knowledge of the judges.

But the voting guide here states, "Pretend you're a Golden Demon judge. Painting skill, imagination and style are key! 10 is amazing, 8 is a great job, 5 is tabletop quality." Nothing about background? Personally, I think that if you want to call your mini's Deathwing and they are black, you can do so, but if they are painted to be before the Dark Angels took on the bone-white armour (which there is no indication of here), and so you are doing such a thing at your own risk. Beware of those voters who stick religiously behind the fluff. In this case, however, I did not score the mini using background accuracy as a factor, as the painting overshadowed such a fact.

I believe that the voting guide should be far more specific, as some people may use it instead of their heart when they vote, ignoring such points as background story inaccuracy.

And now on to the miniature itself...

My only problem with the Sergeant is how there are very dark shadows, making it difficult to distinguish some details that could very well affect the score (for better OR for worse). From what I can see, however, I really like.

The conversion is spot-on! From Captain Lysander, bearing Imperial Fist heraldry all over his armour, this artist has converted the miniature from it's kneepad to the large shield. And who can resist a marine standing triumphantly atop the severed head and torso of a traitor?

Painting-wise, PATOUZE has used strong freehand skills to decorate the cape well, adding a regal feel to the shamed chapter's Deathwing Sergeant. Also, the face looks highly defined and realistic from this angle, which is great for a miniature intended for table-top use. It adds character to one's army, and judging from this and other submission's in PATOUZE's gallery, his force has a lot.

Some things that could be done to improve on this model would be to paint the armour as if it is battle-damaged (see Cyril's marines or this: http://www.coolminiornot.com/138739 by electrolito 77) as he has been out all day fighting Chaos Space Marines and maybe adding some blood to the hammer.

Overall, despite ALL of the controversey, Ainu's Mini of the Week: Sergeant Deathwing Conversion by PATOUZE receives 7.9/10.

Ainu

http://www.coolminiornot.com/139946

 

[DarkStar]

Interesting.

Well thought out and postulated question.

You\'ve used the criteria of \"Pretend you\'re a Golden Demon Judge\" there and before I go any further thinking about this, I beg to ask the question, What does \"you\'re a Golden Demon Judge\" actually mean?


If any one (*especially former or current GD judges) has any personal insight to this please respond, as it will help us to understand the answer.


I understand that you are calling for an expansion of the voting definition/qualification beyond that of \"Golden Demon Judge\", which is admittedly very vague to the layman. Fluff should be an important issue to a judge of the GD awards, but for voting a miniature that is not based in the Lore of Games Workshop, how should that description of \"how we should vote\" be interpreted.

I could give a rat\'s flying boiled sliced and grated ass about Political Correctness personally, although I firmly believe in respect, courtesy, polite manners and protocol, so I pay my respects to this question and answers we can work out behind how the description of how we\'re supposed to vote, given the directions posted at the header of this very site.

According to the description that has been here for years we are supposed to imagine ourselves as a Golden Demon judge. If that were the case, then the person subtracting or adding points to their final determination of a score would be well within their means to subtract or add points based on reasons of fluff, but *only* as it pertains to Games Workshop produced miniatures.

The world of miniatures, miniature painting and collecting has expanded so far just during the last several years that \"Golden Demon Judge\" isn\'t the end-all-be-all final say in matter of quality of craftmanship anymore.

Perhaps it is time for a new description of what we as voter should aspire to is called for by this very question, due to the sheer number of new factors that are in play now in 2006 as we move into 2007.

Regarding the mini, I think it\'s really good. The face in particular is jamming in that comic book style with the purple on one side and the flesh on the other.

I reserve any hyper critical judgments on painted and finished pieces however and I will just say that the mini is well painted, nicely posed and has some great little detail like the freehand on the inside of the cloak and the use (apparently I may be wrong) of some WH Fantasy sprue bitz in the creation of this fig.

All in all, I would give the figure an 8.1, maybe an 8.3 if I saw it in person.

 

[electrolito 77]

This is a really strong argument Ainu. It is very clear what the term \"GD Judge\" means. It is used merely as a metaphor of what we know is a very strict and fair above all judging character, not to be taken as a literal order of \"pretend you are a GD judge at a GD Booth at Games Day\", but merely as judge the mini not as a friend or as a sniper, but as a GD judge would if he was presented this one outside a competition with sincere and helpful feedback. Still, as the nature of all it is very open for all to interpret as their own...

 

[iamthelizardqueen]

It seems to me that fluff should generally not be a factor in scoring minis. For one thing, no one can be expected to be familiar with the historic and current colour schemes of every variation of every army in every game represented here, and to judge only some minis by their conformity to fluff is hypocritical. For another, the GW codices (at least- not familiar with other games) always encourage players to invent their own, for instance, successor chapters of blood angels and eldar craftworld schemes.

Conformity to fluff can be a fun little extra, an in-joke for those who\'ve read the codex even, but it seems unneccesary and even unfair as criteria for judging.

But then, I\'m just an ickle noob.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

NO!!!

But like everything I suppose a matter of opinion. I could give a rats arse what someone thinks my mini should look like. I forked out the dosh, it\'s mine and if I want to paint an ork all pink and girly I will (not that I do - so I wont)

 

[matty1001]

I don\'t even know enough fluff/background to know what should be what colour. So it\'s never bothered me. I vote on the paint job i see, not the paint job it should have been.

 

[AinuLainour]

To sum up my views, if you want to have DeathWing Terminators in the \'present\' 40k, then paint them bone-white.

Though it won\'t really matter except for tournament points (army appearance/background and what-not), and GW painting competitions.

As for coolmini, I feel that voters who know the background should vote accordingly or just ignore it, it is simply their choice..

 

[generulpoleaxe]

you will be complaing that people are painting ultra marines in the wrong shade of blue next.

i\'m in the same boat as drevilmonki.
paint them how you like, and tell marneus to stick his shade of blue up his arse.

it\'s so yesterday ultra marine blue. lol

 

[lono]

I\'ve never thought about the \'pretend you are a Golden Demon judge\' thing in that way. I\'ve always just taken it as \'be impartial and judge relatively harshly\'!

I completely get your point though, because if this model was entered for Golden Demon, even if it was painted as finely as is humanly possible, it wouldn\'t have a chance. Well not at UK Games Day at least. So in that respect if you follow the voting advice it should be marked low.

I\'ve watched juding from up close the last two years where I worked on the Golden Demon stand helping with photography, and this year I was stickering stuff up that I thought deserved final cut. I wasn\'t given any criteria, my actual job on the day was to try and guess what would win so we could get it photographed early on and didn\'t have to rush them all through at the end. As I was already having to cast a critical eye over them it made sense that I got a sticker sheet and marked up the models deserving of a closer look from the judges.

Once the proper judging begins more than anything it\'s fluff that matters to them. If it screams GW then it has a good chance. Obviously there isn\'t a documented guide for what judges should look for that they use though, and winners from other GDs around the world show their criteria is very different. Fluffyness seems to be much less important in France for example.

Ultimately the Golden Demon judges pick the model that appeals to the majority of them most to win, so when you rate just decide how much you like it and rate it on the 1-10 scale accordingly I guess.

 

[generulpoleaxe]

interesting to know how it works at gd uk.

cheers:beer:

 

[Hinton]

I\'m not a gamer anymore (haven\'t been for many years) so I have no idea what\'s supposed to be painted what color/s. I purchase a mini, look it over and paint it according to what my mind\'s eye sees.

Should a great paint job on a mini suffer simply because the person that painted it chooses not to play the game that it goes with or is even familiar with the rules? Of course not.

A paint job is a paint job; it should be scored according to one criteria: is it painted well? Not \"Is it painted according to the game rules?\"

Just my opinion.

 

[Ritual]

I don\'t give a f*** about fluff or any such things. I look at the model and pick colours that I think will make it look cool. That\'s what I look at when I vote on minis here, as well. I know other people do differently, but that\'s their problem. I have had many comments on my old Emperor\'s Champion (the only SM I\'ve painted since I was a kid) saying I forgot his backpack or asking why it\'s not there, despite the fact that I specifically wrote in the description that I don\'t like SM backpacks and didn\'t want to use it, and added a few other things back there instead.

 

[AinuLainour]

To sum up what\'s been said:

Fluff doesn\'t matter, you can paint it however you want. However, if you enter it in competitions where fluff makes a difference, then you can\'t expect success. Correct?

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by AinuLainour
To sum up what\'s been said:

Fluff doesn\'t matter, you can paint it however you want. However, if you enter it in competitions where fluff makes a difference, then you can\'t expect success. Correct?

That seems to be the general idea among those who posted here, at least. But there\'s plenty of fanboys who DO care about fluff even when there\'s no point in it...

 

[Trevor]

Well I\'ve had comments on my minis telling me I\'ve used the wrong colour, along the lines of \'thats too orange for Blood Angels\'.

Which, as far as I\'m concerned, is completely stupid... I\'ll paint my Blood Angles pink if I want to! :cussing:

 

[Ogrebane]

If someones going to all the trouble of painting a mini then let em paint them how they like. Nice mini freehand is awesome whats the prob??