VT
- Thread starter AinuLainour
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No Such Agency
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Nope, but I have a friend who does employment services for the homeless, I frequently hear about this problem from him.
Infidel Castro
New member
That\'s a personal viewpoint. In defence of Iono, should he have to walk on eggshells in case he says the wrong thing? I think not. There\'s a split here on the CMoN forums between folks who keep private matters to themselves and those who like to get their tragedies onto forums for comfort, advice or whatever. That translates into the varied posts we have here. Iono\'s point was a very valid one and you responded with details of some grisly RTA. I find it a strange response.
It\'s not nice what happened in the University (I\'ve got my massive understatement hat on as I type this), but it is so far removed from my life and so insignificant in comparison to other issues the world turns a blind eye to that, apart from an instant reaction to it, I all but forgot it by the next day. It\'s only because of the media that we have details of such incidents. If we are expected to grieve every tragedy in this world, reading a paper would become a daily routine of self-flagellation. We can\'t live like that. Those affected most - and rightly - are those who have a direct involvement. The further away from the epicentre, the less feeling there is apart from the initial registering of the situation. I was gobsmacked. Now I\'m not. In a country where guns are so freely available, this stuff WILL happen with more frequesncy than in places that there are stricter, more sensible gun laws.
@lono and reverend
I can understand your views on this matter and to an extent I share them (and I certainly agree on your views on the role of media in this). But different people react differently and for some this event is a lot closer to home than for you and me. Why not let people discuss their feelings if they want to without belittleing this event by comments like \"there is far worse things happening\". A bigger tragedy doesn\'t make a lesser tragedy any less important.
So, what I\'m saying is... if you think this is pointless to discuss, then don\'t discuss. Telling people who do want to talk about it that it is pointless only comes out as condescending.
I can understand your views on this matter and to an extent I share them (and I certainly agree on your views on the role of media in this). But different people react differently and for some this event is a lot closer to home than for you and me. Why not let people discuss their feelings if they want to without belittleing this event by comments like \"there is far worse things happening\". A bigger tragedy doesn\'t make a lesser tragedy any less important.
So, what I\'m saying is... if you think this is pointless to discuss, then don\'t discuss. Telling people who do want to talk about it that it is pointless only comes out as condescending.
I\'m sorry Ritual, but I really don\'t feel that I have belittled the event, or told people to stop discussing their feelings.
Supervike asked a question - \"Have I become desensitized to this sort of thing, or am I just a callous bastard?\" - I attempted to answer it. That is all.
Supervike asked a question - \"Have I become desensitized to this sort of thing, or am I just a callous bastard?\" - I attempted to answer it. That is all.
Infidel Castro
New member
And at what point was I saying it\'s pointless? I\'m just defending the fella. I just pointed out that there are different approaches to it and supported Iono over his approach. Do you think I\'m a callous, loveless sort? It struck a nerve with me when I found out, but thereafter (and likely the same for 90% of folk) it was pushed away. I don\'t like the attitude of meeting rationalisation with more (unrelated) emotion to make a point, which I feel TAB was doing and, as such, being \'condescending\' towards Iono. There are two sides two every coin. There\'s an edge to it too, but it gets complicated then...
A fella (Juan Cole, President of Global Americana Institute) wrote this:
I keep hearing from US politicians and the US mass media that the \"situation is improving\" in Iraq. The profound sorrow and alarm produced in the American public by the horrific shootings at Virginia Tech should give us a baseline for what the Iraqis are actually living through. They have two Virginia Tech-style attacks every single day. Virginia Tech will be gone from the headlines and the air waves by next week this time in the US, though the families of the victims will grieve for a lifetime. But next Tuesday I will come out here and report to you that 64 Iraqis have been killed in political violence. And those will mainly be the ones killed by bombs and mortars. They are only 13% of the total; most Iraqis killed violently, perhaps 500 a day throughout the country if you count criminal and tribal violence, are just shot down. Shot down, like the college students and professors at Blacksburg. We Americans can so easily, with a shudder, imagine the college student trying to barricade himself behind a door against the armed madman without. But can we put ourselves in the place of Iraqi students?
...............
That really hits home to me where global priorities lie, though I would never denigrate the shootings in Virginia.
I think for someone who feel personally affected by this event a comment like \"there are far worse things\" is belittleing. I\'m not disagreeing with you, I just think that type of comment is unnecessary in a discussion like this. You might not intend to sound condescending, but what you said can easily be interpreted that way.
@rev
I didn\'t mean you actually said that! I wasn\'t really attacking you or lono. I was just suggesting that a certain type of comments may be better kept to yourself in this type of thread. The fact that TAB (who feels more personally affected by this then you and me) reacted to what lono said shows exactly why. It only steers this topic into a quarrel about respect, and I don\'t think that was the initial purpose of the thread.
@rev
I didn\'t mean you actually said that! I wasn\'t really attacking you or lono. I was just suggesting that a certain type of comments may be better kept to yourself in this type of thread. The fact that TAB (who feels more personally affected by this then you and me) reacted to what lono said shows exactly why. It only steers this topic into a quarrel about respect, and I don\'t think that was the initial purpose of the thread.
Infidel Castro
New member
You\'re quoting something I never wrote. And apologies for backing someone up who, in turn, was backing up someone else
Edit - and now I read the rest of it. Fair play. I just don\'t like seeing it. Anyone read The Outsider (L\'Etranger)? People condemn others for not showing the so-called correct level of emotion in a certain circumstance. A dangerous thing, not showing as much emotion as those who scream and wail!
Ok, rev... I wasn\'t quoting you. I was referring to this comment by lono:
I didn\'t bother to quote him exactly, which maybe I should have to avoid confusion. AND for the last time... I am merely suggesting that all of us go a little bit easy on this type of thing. I am well aware of the fact that if you pull the comment out of the context it sounds very insensitive. BUT, my point is, that some people will see this comment and do just that... forget about waht else was said and just get upset. And as the original poster asked, litterally, for us to keep this to the event in question I think maybe we should respect that.
No need to get upset here... I\'m not attacking you or really criticising what you\'re saying (as I personally agree with what you are saying). I\'m just suggesting a bit more tactful responses in a thread like this. And to keep the thread as it was intended... as that was clearly requested.
I didn\'t bother to quote him exactly, which maybe I should have to avoid confusion. AND for the last time... I am merely suggesting that all of us go a little bit easy on this type of thing. I am well aware of the fact that if you pull the comment out of the context it sounds very insensitive. BUT, my point is, that some people will see this comment and do just that... forget about waht else was said and just get upset. And as the original poster asked, litterally, for us to keep this to the event in question I think maybe we should respect that.
No need to get upset here... I\'m not attacking you or really criticising what you\'re saying (as I personally agree with what you are saying). I\'m just suggesting a bit more tactful responses in a thread like this.
And to keep the thread as it was intended... as that was clearly requested.You know what, I\'ve deleted what I was going to post in response here a good 5 or 6 times now. I did the same thing last night.
I just haven\'t got a clue what I can write that isn\'t going to upset someone or other, so I\'ll just bow out and leave people thinking that I\'m the callous bastard. Excellent stuff, that worked out well!
EDIT - I think an edit can be done and still be counted as bowed out right? lol
Your support was appreciated Reverend, and even your oposition was too Ritual. <Reverend crouches down behind the Swede as I run distraction, before I push Ritual and sending him tumbling backwards and sprawling to the ground!>
I just haven\'t got a clue what I can write that isn\'t going to upset someone or other, so I\'ll just bow out and leave people thinking that I\'m the callous bastard. Excellent stuff, that worked out well!
EDIT - I think an edit can be done and still be counted as bowed out right? lol
Your support was appreciated Reverend, and even your oposition was too Ritual. <Reverend crouches down behind the Swede as I run distraction, before I push Ritual and sending him tumbling backwards and sprawling to the ground!>
Infidel Castro
New member
I took my lead from Vike who suggested time enough had passed to perhaps start discussing the politics of it, etc. It sounded about right. But no fear Ritual, I have always respected you and I take all that you have posted on this thread as being the sensible approach. I just wanted to make sure that I got my point across about defending Iono.
@rev
Point taken!
@lono
Generally, I\'m all for speaking your mind. In a discussion of a more emotional character, like this one, if you are unsure of whether to say something or not, then maybe it\'s better to keep it to yourself. That\'s my strategy, at least... When people are in an emotional state of mind things can very easily take unexpected routes. Anyone remember Frenchkid\'s \"obituary thread\"?
Point taken!
@lono
Generally, I\'m all for speaking your mind. In a discussion of a more emotional character, like this one, if you are unsure of whether to say something or not, then maybe it\'s better to keep it to yourself. That\'s my strategy, at least...
When people are in an emotional state of mind things can very easily take unexpected routes. Anyone remember Frenchkid\'s \"obituary thread\"?
Infidel Castro
New member
Originally posted by Ritual
@rev
Point taken!
@lono
Generally, I\'m all for speaking your mind. In a discussion of a more emotional character, like this one, if you are unsure of whether to say something or not, then maybe it\'s better to keep it to yourself. That\'s my strategy, at least...
Remind me!
Late into the fray, however...
A friend of mine, Jenny, has over three years, suffered many things. Cancer of the colon, agonising endometriosis and just a month after her wedding, her husband was shot between the eyes. Oh, and she\'s pregnant by him too. All against a background of the most self-centered and unsupportive family who would blame their misery on her and her woes.
So, what does this mean to you? Someone you\'ve never spoken to, seen or lived near? I guess pretty much close to nothing. But it means a hell of a lot to me. So to those who have felt affected by this VT tragedy (and indeed it is a tragedy), neither ask, nor expect, the same from the rest of us.
Having said that, that 76-year-old guy, now his death is a true shame. I bet that he was a hell of a lecturer/mentor, a gem of a man. Hats off to, and respect for him.
A friend of mine, Jenny, has over three years, suffered many things. Cancer of the colon, agonising endometriosis and just a month after her wedding, her husband was shot between the eyes. Oh, and she\'s pregnant by him too.
All against a background of the most self-centered and unsupportive family who would blame their misery on her and her woes.So, what does this mean to you? Someone you\'ve never spoken to, seen or lived near? I guess pretty much close to nothing. But it means a hell of a lot to me. So to those who have felt affected by this VT tragedy (and indeed it is a tragedy), neither ask, nor expect, the same from the rest of us.
Having said that, that 76-year-old guy, now his death is a true shame. I bet that he was a hell of a lecturer/mentor, a gem of a man. Hats off to, and respect for him.
Infidel Castro
New member
Ah, that rolls back the years!
It was one hell of an outburst to be sure, with a kernel of truth to it. Hoho, I remember it well!
I know I said I was out of this, but that thread you posted Ritual, how could I resist coming back here to laugh at myself after scrolling down it a bit.
I barely remember it, but check out my post in there for a chuckle. I\'m practically the voice of you! lol
Was I wiser or more sensative in my youth, or did I just lack bottle? Hmm, I questioned a moderator\'s actions, so I guess the bottle thing can\'t be it. Kinda funny to see it though. I still rambled on like a mutha bitch in them days also.
I barely remember it, but check out my post in there for a chuckle. I\'m practically the voice of you! lol
Was I wiser or more sensative in my youth, or did I just lack bottle? Hmm, I questioned a moderator\'s actions, so I guess the bottle thing can\'t be it. Kinda funny to see it though. I still rambled on like a mutha bitch in them days also.
