Why the decrease?

[AinuLainour]

Hey everyone I know that this has been a hot topic recently, and I\'ve seen many others experience the result of the CMoN \'depression\'.

**Note I am not saying this on behalf of my minis, though they have influenced my thoughts on this subject**

I\'m wondering why there is a sudden dip in ratings for miniatures, and I have seen very many that are underrated. A tau stealth-suit that I posted in the WAKE UP YOU LOT!!! thread was in the sixes, but deserved to be in at least the mid-sevens.

Other examples of this problem are found as the subject in my weekly article. First there was the Daemonslayer, at 7.6 (at time of writing) and it was an absolutely AMAZING miniature and deserved to be over eight.

Then there\'s Bill\'s Vostroyan radio operator, that is underrated in the sevens. Despite his age, it is still worthy of 8 or more!

Lastly, there\'s SilAx\'s work, such as his Selafyn, and his Inquisitor Lorr. Even his Chaplain is underrated. This is one UNDERRATED artist people. And he is certainly not alone.

What are your thoughts on the decrease?

 

[J2FcM]

I think the decrease is good! 9\'s are very special. They should be cherished.

 

[Dammekkos2]

Some of the scores aren\'t based on quality, but on other factors. A popular cmoner will get higher scores, a less popular or more outspoken person may get lower scores. Putting your head above the parapet and being noticed can lower a score, or featuring it in a thread might do the same. TL7D isn\'t so bad since the 1 week delay was introduced. I\'m not really certain that scores are going down. If they are it might be because the quality of the top scoring minis is increasing.

There are ways of increasing a score though, I have noticed a lot of sympathy threads recently, they seem to increase scores. Also sending the link to people who may vote high could work.

 

[Trevor]

People have different tastes, and thus give different scores. Airhead (IIRC) impressed this upon me when I started a similar thread a few years back.

Basically, just because you think something is a 7.5 doesn\'t mean the majority of other people scoring do.

:drunk:

 

[lono]

I can\'t say that I\'ve really noticed any more spectacular discrepancies than usual. If I’m being perfectly honest I think you are being overgenerous with how highly you rate some of the miniatures you mention. Bill\'s Vostroyan does deserve a higher rating than it is on, but I only know that because I\'ve seen it in the flesh. If I was judging it by the rather overexposed photo online I’m not sure I’d be happy giving it an 8.

Silax is doing nicely around the scores he is on. Again there is nothing there that would ever get more than an 8 from me.

I do think that painting standards of the very best artists are going up rapidly though, so expectations are also rising. This could mean it is getting tougher for the above average but not fantastic painters out there to impress the casual voter. Sorting the top 10 by year really does show the leap up mini painting has taken since this site started.

Also, the longer this site is around the more used to seeing stunning miniatures we are getting. Again it is the competent but not really spectacular minis that will probably suffer in score.

And finally, perhaps it is just that you are mellowing, not everyone else getting harsher!

Oh, and let’s not forget that votes aren’t really important either.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Have to agree with Iono on all points.

Pesonally I find the number of threads you devote to this topic pretty odious to the point of spam.

Your friends mini by the way was shown in a distant, blurry shot where (as you said yourself) the detail was obscured to the point of invinsibility. So you have seen it up close and where impressed, that has no relevence to me - I will judge it based on what is presented to me.

You know some of my minis did not score what I was expecting, whos fault is that? MINE! If I want higher scores I need to paint better, simple as that!

 

[GreenOne]

They\'re is probably a lot of rambling going on about this topic...
I personnaly noted some dramatic changes since a few month ago.
Maybe there is a whole study that can be made on this, comparing trends in voting and painting... the general level is going up too.. but can the \'casual\' voter ( I dont really paint but I vote...) get so unimpressed as to throw EVERYTHING that is not GD stuff into the tabletop zone ( And I am NOT crying about my poor dragon here ) and the tabltop 5 is really not indicative anymore.. I though tabletop meant quick job, not ugly from arms lenght, fits nicely between two rolling hills....

Still, maybe with the recent improve of the top works, we need space to grade them between themselves so the 9 become 8 so the 9 is more meaninful... kind of stockmarketish.. for the system to be any fair we\'d need variating indicators, with the high average, the low average, and tt level that would hover at midpoint.
** Welcome to CMON, current TT level is at 3.2... please don\'t cry. **

I\'ve personnaly lowered the way I score to fit with the new context, about a point lower in fact.


I\'m also concerned about the whole environment being harsh on newbs, to the extent of snobish and elitist, especially after big GD when we suddently feel all the thousands of members are suddently really both GD judges, and winners, which is NOT the case.
Not that im ranting against Cmon, I love this site and its community, but I feel all this is symptomatic of other sites that turned bad

Just my two cents...

 

[airhead]

@ Treavor, I really don\'t remember that thread, must have been a while back. Old-timers sucks

Voting is a very subjective thing. Someone\'s 9 may be another\'s 6. When I first came here, I thought I was a pretty good painter, I could paint the cloak green, pants blue and belt brown. Could paint all the bits and have no primer showing through. Had no clue about shading and shadowing outside of a bit of drybrush on fur and hair. That level/style of painting barely rates a 5 here if the base is done nice. Consequently I was giving out 8\'s & 9\' to lots of 6\'s & 7\'s. After I understood that it was not impossible to paint at that level, my voting now falls more in line with the CMON norm.

I\'ve been to lots of cons (game conventions for the rest of you) where the standard of tabletop is a can of blue primer makes them Ultramarines or a can of red makes them blood angels. And I\'ve also seen lots of snow marines (white primer) on a table where a guy is slowly bringing his army up to something better than the krylon standard. And none of those will score a 4 here.

I\'ve also seen - in person - some amazing minis that score very low because the pics suck. If you cannot present the mini, it cannot score. Look at some of the GD finalist - most are lucky to break an 8. That is not becase they are poorly done, but because the pics do not do the mini justice.

I also feel that the last month or so, that CMON has been invaded by a bunch of immature visitors that think it is funny to vote down minis. I don\'t know how the formula works on the voting (and I don\'t want to) but if you vote something a 3 enough times, it has to affect the vote. Now that school has started back up, it seems to have leveled off.

Finally, there is the mini under the paint. Some minis will never score above a 7 no matter if Cyril, Goatman & the last 3 slayer sword winners worked on it. I personally have a hard time voting on space marines (if you are worried, I usually just pass) just becase I\'ve seen so many of them that it takes something special to impress me.

[/ soapbox]

 

[Legacy Account]

Who gives a toss?

Why endlessly analyse the voting here?

The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint better minis and then take decent pics of them.

 

[Talonicus]

@ Spacemunkie

You are the man!!!!!!

So honest, so to the point and so very very true.

:beer:
Nigel

 

[Talion]

Yep to many people get hung up on the score I gave up a long time ago caring.

As for voting, well people look at things differently, I personally judge other people\'s score on what my mini\'s got, so if my stuff has got 6 & 7\'s and I see something that I don\'t feel is better than mine I score them the same as mine.

People look for different things on a mini, some care about bases, I don\'t so......so every ones looks at each mini in their own taste.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie
Who gives a toss?

Why endlessly analyse the voting here?

The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint better minis and then take decent pics of them.

lol

I feel I should say something...

lol

That\'s all I\'m saying!

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by Spacemunkie

The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint better minis and then take decent pics of them.

Or is it a case of: \"The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint minis better and then take decent pics of them\". ?

 

[No Such Agency]

Originally posted by Dammekkos2
Some of the scores aren\'t based on quality, but on other factors. A popular cmoner will get higher scores, a less popular or more outspoken person may get lower scores.

My advice to everyone is, if you find yourself thinking about your feelings about a particular painter when voting... click the NEXT button instead.

There are ways of increasing a score though, I have noticed a lot of sympathy threads recently, they seem to increase scores.

And don\'t vote people\'s minis up just because they complain in the forums. A lot of the time, low scores are corrected in the stats, after a delay. Also the minis may not deserve it. Everyone likes to think their latest is the next 10... lol

 

[vincegamer]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach

Originally posted by Spacemunkie

The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint better minis and then take decent pics of them.

Or is it a case of: \"The simple answer to getting a higher score is to paint minis better and then take decent pics of them\". ?

Both, Mike. Definitely both.

 

[MPJ]

Originally posted by Talion
As for voting, well people look at things differently, I personally judge other people\'s score on what my mini\'s got, so if my stuff has got 6 & 7\'s and I see something that I don\'t feel is better than mine I score them the same as mine.

I more or less do the same thing. It gives a good basis point to work from.

Like it or not we are judging photography just as much as we are judging painting, since the mini is not here in person we have to, no way to avoid it. I feel most of my minis are at least a point higher then they come out at, but I currently take bad photos, I\'ve noticed that the better my pics get the closer to what I expect my minis get.

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

I think a lot has to do with the level of painting keeps increasing but were still only allowed a score of 1-10. So last years 8 may now only be a 6 or 7.
To get a 9 or 10 vote takes amazing work.

Yes everyone likes to see their work scored high, but if a person can\'t learn from what they are seeing on CMON and understand that their work may not be as good as the ones getting 8-10\'s then they will never get better. Its the ones who understand this and strive to get better and better will see their score rise.

 

[funnymouth]

well i guess ill throw my two cents in again - ive mentioned this before, but i think that because the most frequently seen minis on this site are rated 8+ (because of the random pic algorithm). those minis are indeed getting better, and because 8+ is the most commonly seen miniit has become the standard by which all minis are judged. frankly 8+ minis are amazingly good, and using them as the standard has pushed the average tt mini down. just a thought, that occured to me after hours of browsing.

 

[Thecadian]

id just read my gd entry thread when id read this so i thought id put my mini on.I think this is way below what it should be.What do you think??it wasm on 4.3/.....

linky

 

[demonherald]

Gotta agree with spacemunkie..
Paint better ..... Photograph better..
I sit in the mid to late 7\'s to early 8\'s ..I\'m happy with that.. Currently working on piccies and I will hopefully see a bit of a lift but hey Who cares....
this has been done to death a million times and there won\'t ever be a point when everybody is happy...
while pointing out others models like DR did when they have slipped under the radar and not got enough votes is good.
..pulling peoples models up and saying they are underrated is up to that person really.