Alien Contact: Controversial Subject matter.

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
old lady in a dildo shop says to the assistant "i will take that big red one at the end please" shop assistant replies " sorry maam thats the fire extinguisher" ba boom!

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fieldarchy

New member
I'm late to the party here but the painting is really stellar and the scene is convincing. Not all art is meant to be comfortable. In fact some of the best art pieces evoke some sort of emotion.

right on for someone putting this together and posting it knowing it would cause a disturbance. Got some balls for sure!
 

fieldarchy

New member
@Cannonfodder

Truthfully, I cant stand when people say showing boobs is objectifying women. They are boobs on a metal model, boobs are for all intents and purposes, an attractive shape. A penis is not, and most girls agree that it is not, regardless of whether they like them or not.

However a man baring full chest and showing off some leg is quite attractive, and to be honest possibly even more so because the "bits" are hidden. You dont see many nude male models because women arent generally as into that, they like the concepts.

So objectifying of men would not look the same (to us all) as women because men are visual and women are conceptual.

The fact is, that while this diorama suggests a concept, it does not SHOW it occuring


That is what makes it great, without going "too far" in my opinion


agreed! On all points. And I rarely do that! :)
 

Chern Ann

Only when they're green
Staff member
Just jumping in here late, but I (as always) reside along the fence. . .
To Chern Ann: Thank you for making a site like this, but really, do you need to feed the trolls? Your posts are just as inflammatory as anything and offensive at times ("Do we really need to accommodate the handicapped?" or however you put it, is just as wrong as some people claim this dio to be)

If I truly believed any of these posters to be trolls, the proper response would be to delete their posts and ban them. I'd invite you to reflect on how often that happens, or rather, how often that does not. Would you care to point out the trolls to me so I can rid the board of them? Making throwaway remarks about site administration comes across as confused. Perhaps you'd like to expand on that?

As for the handicapped comment, you are quoting me out of context, which I do not appreciate. If you are not aware, these are legal requirements in some jurisdictions that websites that receive government funding (of which this site is not) be accessible to the handicapped. This is a worthy thing for access to government to etc, but does also mean that these sites incur additional costs, and there may be some inconvenience to non-handicapped users which is minimized as far as possible. However, how inconvenienced the majority are does not factor into this decision making process at all; it must be done because it is the right thing to do. Ergo, are you equating a NSFW filter on CoolMiniOrNot to a handicapped requirement, i.e. it must be implemented without regard to cost and convenience?

I am equating those with special sensitivities towards sexual violence to those with special sensitivities towards torture; I'm talking real victims here, not people who get armchair uncomfortable on behalf of someone else. There is much medical literature that both groups suffer real and unpleasant psychological trauma. However, in order to cater to the needs of the former, it would be hypocrisy not to cater to the needs of the latter. Therefore, to both groups, my answer is, move along, there's nothing to see here.

Sexual violence is objectifying, removing one's own will and/or control, and is a temporarily vulgar answer to a disturbingly permanent (psychological) issue. In war, death, blood and gore are inherent, rape and molestation are not, and thus unnecessary.

Tell that to the victims of the Lord's Resistance Army, who are no doubt planning another Christmas atrocity. I sincerely doubt being held down and having ones hands and ears cut off is any less psychologically traumatic than being raped, with the added bonus of having no hands and no ears. One of the purported reasons for doing this is to cow the local population into non-cooperation with government forces. The LRA also does indulge in rape, child slavery/soldiers etc for the same reasons.

After reading your post in detail, I find you are drawing the line at conventional warfare, and I presume you find the Dark Eldar equally repugnant to the Agonizer etc. This is a clear point of view at least. Fair enough.

As far as being inflammatory goes, when it is time to be 100% clear, I find using weasel words often obscures meaning. I ask questions in posts where I genuinely want to see an answer. A series of questions means I am mystified as to a poster's point or motivations. I could presume that the poster has no point and try to reason in advance of data, in which case instead of asking a question I'd analyze them in advance.

i.e. "Why are you here?" (caveat, I do not know if any of these apply to you, hence the question) -

1. There is a disconnect between what you feel, and what you can logically justify. Stating simply "I don't like this, and I have no idea why" is something you are uncomfortable doing.
2. You are here to enjoy cool miniatures. You are ok with cartoon violence and torture which would in the real world be utterly horrific, because you do not equate these images with real people, or combining violence and cartoons is something you are ok with (This is me, by the way).
3. You are here to enjoy cool miniatures. You are not ok with cartoon sexual violence because it reminds you uncomfortably of real people, or you feel sex and cartoons should not be combined. (This applies to me as well, to a lesser extent).
4. None of your discomfort about any of the above particularly bothers you over much.
5. Your discomfort of any of the above means you want some kind of special treatment because you either i) "I want it" don't care about what other people want, or ii) believe lots of people want it too (i.e. silent majority argument) or iii) it is ethically or morally justified for some reason "Think of the children".

Just because someone has an "ow my head hurts" feeling or "oh shit I have no intellectually defensible position" epiphany or "man, why is he badgering me with questions" moment will not go unchallenged by me especially when the site administration is called into question. I don't think there is nice way to tell someone he is making no sense, which is why discussions on religion are typically avoided. If you think your point of view has merit, then it's up to you to explain why, not the other way around.

I'm not going to address the ease or difficulty of implementing a filter, since it was already explained earlier. When you find a set of standards that can be applied to and a bunch of volunteers that are objective enough to apply them, let me know. I'd like to know where the Wet Nurse falls on that one, or the two guardsmen kissing etc. Gearhead has straight up admitted he has no idea in advance what he'll find offensive, in which case the only standard to apply would be the lowest common denominator (i.e. WASP standards of what is acceptable, thankfully there are no Islamic fundamentalists amongst us). Which I have already stated, this is not that kind of site.

Finally, and this is the bit I find absolutely fascinating (no sarcasm intended or implied): Those advocating a NSFW filter/child filter appear to be asking for it for themselves. As adults, does anyone of us really feel the need to be "mentally prepared" to see something on this site? Do you really need a "shields up" moment before looking at something? This is ok to admit, I personally did not watch any live execution videos because I found the whole concept completely repugnant, as in, I literally could not bring myself to do it. I haven't seen anything on this site that would require that kind of warning since it's all fiction to me. I might find something vile, repugnant or juvenile but not to the extent that my mind recoils from it.
 
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JesterzUSMC

Recovering Megalomaniac
I have seen all the internet has to offer, from two girls one cup, to faces of death. I am not a "fan" of these things, nor am I enamored of them. On the same token, I do not recoil from their very existence and deny that they are factual (or in some cases gross) but I try to make sure that when I state an opinion, that I say exactly that. If I am stating (what I reasonably am sure is) factual, I also try to state it as such.

I think Chern has enough headaches with the daily grind of maintaining this site, and such, without adding peevish opinions and whiny complaints.

I will admit that I am not a sit back/lurking type of forum/site member. I am sure that I have, and will again, offend people. I think that owning up to this is one of the reasons and methods to keep myself mostly in check. I think that if everyone can do this, with both their faults, and their thoughts, this kind of "controversy" wouldn't exist.

Also, really, it shouldn't be that difficult to boil it down for yourself. Either you like it, or you don't. If you don't, fine, move on. If you do, great, keep on looking, emulating, and enjoying. This overly emotional "discussion" has really become tedious.

Thank you Chern Ann for wasting your valuable time to CLEARLY express your stance, and I am HAPPY to be a member of your site.

I will not likely be back to post in this particular thread, as the line is clearly drawn, and the argument has become tedious, repetitive, and redundant.

CHEERS!
 
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IdofEntity

New member
This is art. Suggestive, descriptive, engaging and controversial. It has accomplished a level of criticism and discussion that most artists employing traditional means do not attain. I often here art professors here complain that too few of their students don't portray anything controversial. This is narrative. It possesses moral and political points. It's not agreeable to some, but that's desirable. I give my thanks to the artist.
 

Nakatan

New member
wow, today i recieved my first hatemail! =) from a some psycho named Roy Rogers 0___0

`Your diorama of the rape scene is the most disgusting and offensive thing I have ever seen on this website! I have a friend who has been raped and it is not something you should display in miniature form! I have contacted COOLMINI and asked them to remove this image and to remove your ability to post pics on this site! You may be unaware, but legal action can be taken up against you and coolmini for displaying a rape scene. Even though it is with toy soldiers, it is just as bad as if it were of actual people, and it IS against the law to post such images on the internet! I will not stop until this image, all of your images, and you are removed from coolmini forever! If these things do not happen accordingly, then I will proceed with a more drastic, but legal direction! You are an offensive, morally illequipped, less than human piece of filth, and you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself! You truly have my pity along with my anger... `

I happy this is only the first, though =)
 

cassar

BALLSCRATCHER
no need for that at all, the hate seeking missile a weapon of mental disfunction..and i know im just a little insane you see.
 

Shellshock

New member
I stick to my guns that I don't like it as a theme, but that guy made me lol, call the LAPD! Interpol! the internetpoleece! BRING EVERYONE!!!111!!!1!
 
R

Roy Rogers

Guest
If you don't want to offend anyone nakatan, then don't build such graphically, disgusting pieces of crap, and then post them on the web, where everyone will be offended! You are totally contradicting yourself? WTF! It is unbelievably immoral to post such images,( actually, illegal to post images of actual rape pictures) let alone come up with it, sculpt it, and spend who knows how many hours to paint it! If you are such a great painter, paint something that is enjoyable to look at for everyone!

Like I posted in the image I have a very close, personal friend who was raped, and you have no idea what you are doing by creating such a piece.

Show this diorama to your mom, sisters, every woman you see, hell, how about taking it to Jesus and saying " Hey Christ, what do you think?" He will most likely hand you a red ticket straight to hell!

Every man leaves something behind as part of his legacy. Do you wish to be remembered as that guy who created that disturbing eldar rape scene? Dude! Where is, and how much does your conscience cost?
You disgust me!
 

BPI

New member
Hi Roy Rogers. What country are you based in? Interested in where it is that producing a piece of work like this would be considered illegal (or posting it online, publishing, etc).

Thank you, B.

PS You've made your point. Harrassing someone by PM would not be the way to go :friendly-finger-wag:
 

cannon_fodder

New member
@Chern Ann: After rereading the post I referenced, I may have missed it's meaning but without the proper knowledge (which I lack in terms of the access of the handicapped to the internet, as illustrated by my reaction), it can come across in ways other than intended, which is a large part of the current discussion of the piece. But, this website is dedicated to miniatures, not to internet/ disability law. This could lead to this sort of confusion.

In regards to 'feeding the trolls' I just meant you seem to be very emotional in your responses and are 'taking the bait' so to speak. I could be wrong, but without inflection, I can't always determine meaning, again a large part of the current discussion. All in all, I just felt you were arguing for arguing sake...until your most recent post. Thank you for the clarification. If I were the 'holier than thou' type, I would have slammed everybody and tried to start a fight. Not the case, if it came across in that way, I apologize.

I may not be drawing the line at conventional warfare, but the act of war, by nature, is horrific (in my opinion) and therefore doesn't surprise me/offend me as much as other things unrelated to the specific act of war. I simply posted my POV and tried to clarify my position. I was trying to say 'this is how it is for me, but you can have your own opinion.' I was not trying to say I was correct, merely offering an alternative to popular thinking.

In regards to the filter, I have been a member of a highly PC gaming website that has these kinds of filters. Thinking about it now, that could be because it's a company website (whose members frequent here as well), and has the dispensable income, but they operate with volunteers as well. Determining what would be filtered (moved to user areas only) would be at your discretion (and easily stated in the users agreement). we are bringing this up, not to tell you how to operate your website, but offering a suggestion that might make it better. Whether or not you choose to is at your discretion. I also give you credit for responding to my post rather than removing me after a PM slap on the wrist. Always good to know where the upper level members stand

Hope this clarifies things, and that I haven't lived up to my forum name too much. :)

@Nakatan, I may be seen as sensitive, but that person is hypersensitive and a hypocrit. If they truly want to get CMON for letting you post, then they would be against the internet as a whole for giving access to actual imagery of the act. Have fun reading it and ignore it. Maybe even respond with a thank you :)
 

cleen X

New member
There is no rape happening in the diorama, it may be suggested but there is no actual rape going on. You make up your own mind as to what will happend, and I doubt the police will come and shut this site down just because someone posted a pic of a scene where rape might happend. And how come rape is illegal to portray but crazy violence, blood, guts and horrible war scenes is legal? I doubt Nakatan has done this to please himself, and who says that art is supposed to be enjoyable to watch?
 

JesterzUSMC

Recovering Megalomaniac
My girlfriend loves it. so stick that in your pipe Roy, me boy! And yes, she's had that "experience" that concerns you and your close personal friend. She's learned to cope, and most importantly after any traumatic experience, she's moved past it.

CHEERS!
 
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