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.... If I ran GW
- Thread starter Chern Ann
- Start date
If I ran GW...
I would tell the instore salespeople not to constantly follow people (particularly those over 30) around the store asking stupid questions.
Also (apart from saying 'hello' or 'good morning / afternoon') I would tell them to only speak to people who speak to them and that if they have to say something, they could politely ask "can I help you?". I would then point out that a polite negative, is not an invitation to be followed around the store.
(It just kills the chance of any impulse purchases, from me at least)
I would tell the instore salespeople not to constantly follow people (particularly those over 30) around the store asking stupid questions.
Also (apart from saying 'hello' or 'good morning / afternoon') I would tell them to only speak to people who speak to them and that if they have to say something, they could politely ask "can I help you?". I would then point out that a polite negative, is not an invitation to be followed around the store.
(It just kills the chance of any impulse purchases, from me at least)
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Empchild
New member
I worked at a GW and I have owned several Indy stores and I actually agree with the GW principal of acknowledging the customer within 15 seconds because that shows the customer you are there for them if they have any questions what so ever. I have been too stores where I need too either purchase and go, because I am in a hurry, or ask where something is and it's annoying when I can't find an employee for help.
No Such Agency
New member
Supposedly it also reduces shoplifting by letting aspiring thieves know their presence is noticed (in a way that's indistinguishable from good customer service).
Big diff between that and trying to convince me to buy Marneus Calgar by talking too fast about his points value, of course.
I see it happens to you too.
I mean really, come on - some kid came up to me once and said "can you tell me the last thing you really enjoyed painting?"
er - my bathroom? a mountain? an arse? what are you supposed to say...
I must admit and this is my rant over - this strategy of engagement for blatant and overly aggresive maximisation of sales opportunities is unpleasant - luckily because of my age I'm immune. Would I want my kids to be subject to this? hmmm
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sebigboss79
New member
Let me share you some insights of GW.
First of all the Management does not care a toot about gamers and the game. Full stop. No matter what they tell you in the face, they have revenue on their mind nothing else.<br><br>Fair enough one might say but the aproach is totally wrong.
"Kiddies" and fanboys in the 12 - 16 years range do have the cash (from relatives) but they do not stick as much to the hobby as the veterans. They buy some boxes, paints and stuff but realising this hobby needs commitment longer than 5 minutes they switch to something else.
Vetereans are more and more annoyed at the repeated, unjustifiable price rises. I have read Mr Kirbys preamble to the latest annual report and how well received the high quality finecast was.
Reality shows that most independent stores send the stuff back because it is of poor quality and 20 % more expensive than the metal they replace. Now before you praise the high quality compared to metal, sorry there ain´t any. Quality control is even worse and the material price should be less than half. If this si not the case GW should change their whole procurement department.
The largest online retailer in the UK has been told they cannot supply the wargamers in Australia and USA any more. In my country we call this price-fixing and cartellisation. Both are punishable under several laws and would merit, the least, a 5 to 6 digit fine.
What GW should really do is to admit the finecast desaster and withdraw those miniatures at once. Combined with an indefinate 20 % price cut on their stock this will boost sales and revive confidence in veteran gamers. Make the armies more balanced. Strategy and tactics - not the latest issue of overkill - should decide a game.
Listen to the customer base - new armies, re-releases and most of all advance the story fgs.
Untill the metal range can be fully replaced in plastic, keep selling the metal. Does not hurt. The reason to increase prices on the finecast was the higher details (Note: from the same moulds!!! - LOL) Quality Control (yea right) and material cost.
Hm, if switching to resin would increase my cost I would not do it - so bs from Mr Kirby again.
What really gets me is that this company praises itself how good they are and how much they give to the community of gaming. Imho the gaming community would be better off without GW or better without their current attitude.
As much as the proposed changes from all of you merit reward, I doubt that there would be anything but new ways to make people pay more for less stuff of reduced quality. GW needs a major attitude change and hose are hard to do even for companies facing closure.
First of all the Management does not care a toot about gamers and the game. Full stop. No matter what they tell you in the face, they have revenue on their mind nothing else.<br><br>Fair enough one might say but the aproach is totally wrong.
"Kiddies" and fanboys in the 12 - 16 years range do have the cash (from relatives) but they do not stick as much to the hobby as the veterans. They buy some boxes, paints and stuff but realising this hobby needs commitment longer than 5 minutes they switch to something else.
Vetereans are more and more annoyed at the repeated, unjustifiable price rises. I have read Mr Kirbys preamble to the latest annual report and how well received the high quality finecast was.
Reality shows that most independent stores send the stuff back because it is of poor quality and 20 % more expensive than the metal they replace. Now before you praise the high quality compared to metal, sorry there ain´t any. Quality control is even worse and the material price should be less than half. If this si not the case GW should change their whole procurement department.
The largest online retailer in the UK has been told they cannot supply the wargamers in Australia and USA any more. In my country we call this price-fixing and cartellisation. Both are punishable under several laws and would merit, the least, a 5 to 6 digit fine.
What GW should really do is to admit the finecast desaster and withdraw those miniatures at once. Combined with an indefinate 20 % price cut on their stock this will boost sales and revive confidence in veteran gamers. Make the armies more balanced. Strategy and tactics - not the latest issue of overkill - should decide a game.
Listen to the customer base - new armies, re-releases and most of all advance the story fgs.
Untill the metal range can be fully replaced in plastic, keep selling the metal. Does not hurt. The reason to increase prices on the finecast was the higher details (Note: from the same moulds!!! - LOL) Quality Control (yea right) and material cost.
Hm, if switching to resin would increase my cost I would not do it - so bs from Mr Kirby again.
What really gets me is that this company praises itself how good they are and how much they give to the community of gaming. Imho the gaming community would be better off without GW or better without their current attitude.
As much as the proposed changes from all of you merit reward, I doubt that there would be anything but new ways to make people pay more for less stuff of reduced quality. GW needs a major attitude change and hose are hard to do even for companies facing closure.
RuneBrush
New member
Yup in the same way as ultimately every other business in existence does, profit is king. This is normal business practise. GW could improve, but as you mention their key target age is 12 ~ 16 and as such until that demographic stops purchasing GW products they have no reason to change their current approach. Business has no "morals" in that sense. Where I've worked has done similar - we increased the price of something we offer by £3.50 and received some complaints because of it. However people were still paying the increased cost so the people complaining were deemed to be in the minority and as such we didn't reverse the decision. If the number of sales had reduced to nothing then we would have changed it - profit dictated the decision not the customer.
I do agree with some of the points you've made, the first run of finecast does appear to have been a disaster and I do think that the cost of some products is very high. I'd be very happy if GW did a 20% price reduction - over the moon infact, but it's unlikely to happen.
Ooo, controversial
Personally GW over the years has raised the profile of the whole miniature hobby by a huge level and without them I think the number of wargamers/painters/collectors would be significantly less. A lot of people know the name "warhammer" - how many know "malifaux"? Like it or not, the marketing engine of GW is the biggest in this industry and a lot of people have come into the hobby via them, although not necessarily stayed with them. Think about it, in the UK how many towns have a GW store?
1972Lt1
Member
I don't see how GW can keep raising prices, especially in this economy. When I started a Land Raider was @$ 46, it's now over $60 for the same kit. If 12 to 16 year olds are their target market they are eventually going to price themselves out of the biz. I've already seen a few people walk out and not come back after they see how much they have to spend just to get the basics.
Another issue I see is the cost they spend shipping all the metal blisters and boxes to the stores. They removed them all and sent them back without replacements in finecast or plastic. Leave them on the shelves and let them sell out or untill there is a replacement. Don't leave empty spots and tell your customers, sorry. outof stock. Also,why send back all the metal Inquisition and Witch Hunter models? You're just going to have to ship them back out again. More unnecesary shipping costs.
Who was the genius that decided to send out all the finecast knowing how much of it was defective? Why not keep it all under wraps until you get it right?
Lastly, if GW owns Forge World why don't they carry it in their stores, and why can you not order it through the store either? The stores don't have to carry all the items,but have a few things in stock. How about Rhino and LR doors, a few shoulder pads and whatever ties in to the current release or codex. For instance since there was a White Dwarf article about Sisters of Battle send the stores a few items from that line. If the Contemptor Drednought is the newest hot release. send 1 or 2 to the stores. When people see them in person they will buy them. Many people get discouraged if they have to wait. Has GW not heard about impulse buying?
Another issue I see is the cost they spend shipping all the metal blisters and boxes to the stores. They removed them all and sent them back without replacements in finecast or plastic. Leave them on the shelves and let them sell out or untill there is a replacement. Don't leave empty spots and tell your customers, sorry. outof stock. Also,why send back all the metal Inquisition and Witch Hunter models? You're just going to have to ship them back out again. More unnecesary shipping costs.
Who was the genius that decided to send out all the finecast knowing how much of it was defective? Why not keep it all under wraps until you get it right?
Lastly, if GW owns Forge World why don't they carry it in their stores, and why can you not order it through the store either? The stores don't have to carry all the items,but have a few things in stock. How about Rhino and LR doors, a few shoulder pads and whatever ties in to the current release or codex. For instance since there was a White Dwarf article about Sisters of Battle send the stores a few items from that line. If the Contemptor Drednought is the newest hot release. send 1 or 2 to the stores. When people see them in person they will buy them. Many people get discouraged if they have to wait. Has GW not heard about impulse buying?
sebigboss79
New member
They keep raising untill a large portion of the community expresses its dismay. I have sent off a letter to Mr. Kirby. He won´t care. He won´t care about the next lets say hundred letters either BUT if people keep complaining about certain things GW will have the choice to go under or change.
Let me pinder about "business has no morals" - yes that has led us to the financial crisis and common people paying the debt off greedy bonus-bankers and the like. During a summit in London bankers waved at demonstrators with 50 pound notes. If I had been the police, I would have stepped back a few metres and watched the carnage. THAT is attitude of "no morals"
Personally I am fully aware of the "sell now and run" mentality the whole society seems to ahve adopted but lets us consider for a moment which customer is more likely to return. The one you ripped off or the one that received exceptional service. Sales and service work very well together.
"Kiddys" may have access to their parents/grandparents finance but once that runs dry there is one less gamer and at some point the inflow of new "victims" will also slow down. Instead of preying on an easy kill GW should return and do what they can do - produce high quality miniatures and sell them at reasonable prices. Adopt honesty back into the business process. You want more money for the stuff - then say so and please don´t bs the community with arguments even a 5 years old calls bs. (My little one told a blackshirt whenw e discussed Finecast - Priceless).
Let me pinder about "business has no morals" - yes that has led us to the financial crisis and common people paying the debt off greedy bonus-bankers and the like. During a summit in London bankers waved at demonstrators with 50 pound notes. If I had been the police, I would have stepped back a few metres and watched the carnage. THAT is attitude of "no morals"
Personally I am fully aware of the "sell now and run" mentality the whole society seems to ahve adopted but lets us consider for a moment which customer is more likely to return. The one you ripped off or the one that received exceptional service. Sales and service work very well together.
"Kiddys" may have access to their parents/grandparents finance but once that runs dry there is one less gamer and at some point the inflow of new "victims" will also slow down. Instead of preying on an easy kill GW should return and do what they can do - produce high quality miniatures and sell them at reasonable prices. Adopt honesty back into the business process. You want more money for the stuff - then say so and please don´t bs the community with arguments even a 5 years old calls bs. (My little one told a blackshirt whenw e discussed Finecast - Priceless).
How very true. This is an excellent argument. When a financial system allows profits with no limits and no social justice, these are the results.
I totally agree with your opinion about GW market policy, although I admit that they have propeled the hobby throughout the last years. As a result the companies that produce minis are multilpying. This their best contribuion to the hobby. The variety of choices.
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The question is, why should we as hobbiysts want GW to become a billion dollar companny? I mean what would it offer to our hobby. I think the experience so far has been, that the bigger the company gets, the further it fend off its hobby roots. It is transfoming to something different from what it used to be. The fact that we compare the product consumers of GW with them of Marvel, confirms exactly this. I thought that the whole concept of miniaure painting was supposed to be oriented and reffered to more mature customers. There was a time, when miniatures of that scale were not sold to people under 14 years old. Some companies still mention this (Redbox miniatures).
If people in GW has been transformed from hobbyists to absolute businesmen, then I have nothing to do with the company anymore. They have lost all their creative and innovative attitude. What they only care for now is to sell more. This should not be negative up to the point they remained faithful to their hobby values. But they are far from them. I believe greed is not the best way for GW to go on.
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Having a small hobbyist company tends only to be survivable if it is run by family, and even those tend to grow quite large over time if they are successful. Since the topic is "if I ran GW", that's where the discussion is aimed. You are talking about improving the hobby from a hobbyist point of view, which is not exactly what we're talking about here; by logical extension you would distribute all additional profits to a hobby based charity or educational institution since it would primarily benefit hobbyists. Probably quite unlikely for a publicly listed company in the UK which is duty bound to realize the best possible value for shareholders.
Agreed. On the other hand there is a distance between a small family company and a billion dollar one. I mean there are intermidiate stages. Of course the last should be the goal of every company. I was just viewing it from the hobbyist point, otherwise what is the point at all? But you are right it is not exactly that kind of discussion, which is more theoretical (from a financialy point of view).
Still the disadvantage remains that GW becomes more an more impersonal over the years. But I suppose this is unavoidable for such a scale company. Anyway financial policies, which abandon the older customers, who have supported the company and would continue doing so, does not seems very right to me. I mean how you expect to grow as company if you abandon your dedicated basis?
P.S. Excuse me for my english
Still the disadvantage remains that GW becomes more an more impersonal over the years. But I suppose this is unavoidable for such a scale company. Anyway financial policies, which abandon the older customers, who have supported the company and would continue doing so, does not seems very right to me. I mean how you expect to grow as company if you abandon your dedicated basis?
P.S. Excuse me for my english
I don't see why larger scale must result in an impersonal relationship. I've known all the GW managers in my country for a long time and when you have that kind of stability in senior staffing you can have good personal relationships and see a genuine love for the hobby.
The general understanding is that the company makes it's real money from newcomers to the hobby during the first n years. It therefore makes sense for their sales and marketing efforts to be focused on maximising sales to people during that period.
Sucks to be a long-time gamer/painter/collector but we are a niche to them and are treated as such. Given that this is the bargain they have with us it makes sense to give a little more thought to what minis, paints, brushes etc you buy and who from. I've purchased a heap of stuff on ebay and similar recently because I'm not touching their current prices or resin. I miss out on new stuff but I have 20 years worth of minis to paint so I'll get over it.
NB I collect and paint so don't much care about not buying GW Tau models so I can play. If you want to game use affordable models and whatever ruleset you and your friends want.
DannyVasquez
New member
If the company wanted to make some real money and take that next step to a billion dollar company, then they need to loosen that grip on their precious IP and open it up to more outside development instead of driving away a strong loyal customer base for that "quick buck".....they obviously cant do it themselves, the Space Marine movie is a prime example.
Sorry Danny but loosening the grip on the IP would in fact take money away from GW. No-one does anything for free in the business world.
Licensing the IP under strict control to produce high quality entertainment such as a 'proper' space marine movie would involve a huge commintment in time and investment without a guarenteed return of finances.
Lets face it Space Marines are a small Niche Market in terms of the SF/Fantasy genre.
'Fantasy' movies need a hook into the mainstream public conciousness, Conan is famous because of Arnie and not the books. In order to get the same kind of market response to a Warhammer movie, it'd would either have to have some serious 'stars' in it, or have some superb graphic animation such as the Warhammer online trailers.
That's a market hook, that Joe Public would need to draw interest away from the latest Slasher flick.
In order for GW to capitalise on such a marketing strategy the percentile investment that GW would have to make prior to the release would be huge and having looked at Hollywood studios expected returns from movies GW would end up fighting hard to not lose control of the whole business. Look at Movies capitol investment, blockbusters have cost over £100 million, which is a gamble if it flops.
GW doesn't have that kind of financial muscle to withstand A the investment need or B the potential loss of a bad movie.
DannyVasquez
New member
Sorry but that makes no sense, obviously no one does anything for free in the business world. No one is asking them to "give away the silver" as it were. But the company are holding on to it so tightly, they wont notice when the cupboards are bare.
If they had a law firm with a brain, if they optioned, say False Gods to, say, Paramount. Paramount would have x number of years to do somthing with it then it would go back to GW. The company wouldnt exactly have to invest anything and they would be paid for it, the risk is on the studio to make a success. Its just for GW to relinquish creative control. Lord of the Rings is a prime example, Peter Jackson bought the script rights and pitched it to 3 or 4 studios before New Line agreed to do it and New Line had to pay the Tolkien estate for certain rights with regards to the movie, which reverted back to them after a period of time. Also, the trilogy was put together for a fairly low sum in comparison to other "blockbusters" so if GW wanted to do it, there are ways without the risk you seem to place on the whole idea. It also helped that Peter Jackson was as much a fan of the books as the rest of us, but he still changed some of it, can you say you really missed Tom Bombadil really...
With regards to comparing it to Conan, it wouldnt even be the same thing, Conan was never marketed as part of Robert E. Howards books because hardly anyone had a clue who he was and they didnt have to, no studio was that interested and they pulled out in the end, which was why Dino DeLaurentis got it. It was a low budget swords and sandals flick that achieved greater success later on yes. But its no where near on a par with Star Wars, which was really an independent movie that achieved real success through word of mouth and 20th Century Fox took all the risk despite Georges gamble in taking the merch rights.
At the end of the day, GW are unwilling to risk losing conrol of their precious IP and that will either bring them down or limit them as a company for a long long time and if the Space Marine movie they made is the best they can do on their own, we will be waiting a long time for a good one.
There are ways of doing things without having to throw hundreds of millions of pounds at it....GW are seemingly unwilling to explore what they are.
If they had a law firm with a brain, if they optioned, say False Gods to, say, Paramount. Paramount would have x number of years to do somthing with it then it would go back to GW. The company wouldnt exactly have to invest anything and they would be paid for it, the risk is on the studio to make a success. Its just for GW to relinquish creative control. Lord of the Rings is a prime example, Peter Jackson bought the script rights and pitched it to 3 or 4 studios before New Line agreed to do it and New Line had to pay the Tolkien estate for certain rights with regards to the movie, which reverted back to them after a period of time. Also, the trilogy was put together for a fairly low sum in comparison to other "blockbusters" so if GW wanted to do it, there are ways without the risk you seem to place on the whole idea. It also helped that Peter Jackson was as much a fan of the books as the rest of us, but he still changed some of it, can you say you really missed Tom Bombadil really...
With regards to comparing it to Conan, it wouldnt even be the same thing, Conan was never marketed as part of Robert E. Howards books because hardly anyone had a clue who he was and they didnt have to, no studio was that interested and they pulled out in the end, which was why Dino DeLaurentis got it. It was a low budget swords and sandals flick that achieved greater success later on yes. But its no where near on a par with Star Wars, which was really an independent movie that achieved real success through word of mouth and 20th Century Fox took all the risk despite Georges gamble in taking the merch rights.
At the end of the day, GW are unwilling to risk losing conrol of their precious IP and that will either bring them down or limit them as a company for a long long time and if the Space Marine movie they made is the best they can do on their own, we will be waiting a long time for a good one.
There are ways of doing things without having to throw hundreds of millions of pounds at it....GW are seemingly unwilling to explore what they are.
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sebigboss79
New member
Can´t agree more. Shifting some developement to the community instead of sending the Inquisition after it would make them appear much more amicable, too....
