GW changes to cheaper materials and puts up prices.

[Dragonsreach]

Originally Posted by Dragonsreach and for every return there is supposed to be a deduction in wages. (?)
Now how accurate this is I'm not 100% sure, but it was explained to me by a former GW employee.

They are packaged in the UK correct? Is that even legal across the pond?
I have to be clear here I'm not sure what the employment legisilation is now regarding contracts with penalty clauses for failures in quality control or 'piece rate'.
I do know that a few years ago one of my sisters in law worked on assembling electrical components and was paid per unit passing testing.
Whether the employment legislation in the UK still allows this kind of contract I'm not sure.
I have to admit at first it sounds kinda suspect, but considering the legal department at GW is so hot if this is accurate, then the lawyers will have made sure it's airtight.

Now because of this conversation I'm having a "maybe I should take that info with a pinch of salt" hindsight moment.

Ok done some research, this is taken from the Direct Gov own website:
Your employer is not allowed to make a deduction from your pay or wages unless:

• it is required or allowed by law, for example National Insurance, income tax or student loan repayments
• you agree in writing to a deduction
• your contract of employment says they can
• it is a result of any statutory disciplinary proceedings
• there is a statutory payment due to a public authority
• you have not worked due to taking part in a strike or industrial action
• it is to recover an earlier overpayment of wages or expenses
• it is a result of a court order or Employment Tribunal decision

A deduction must not reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage rate (except a limited amount for accommodation). This applies even if you have given your permission for it.

Now the cynical side of me says that an employer can word a contract to be the exact letter of the law which could put an employee in such a position.
And yes I've worked for a company that allowed the exact letter of the law and nothing more.
Most bigger companies allow some freedoms or "wriggle room" such as in arranging doctors appointments etc, that particular comany required you to give up your lunch break (legal 45 mins minimum) and make up any additional lost time within that week by sacrificing lunch time (Locked door hours), if you had to make an appointment which fell inside your contract hours or take time off as annual leave.

It would be interesting to find out if the Blister Sisters are contract, per piece, earners or hourly getting ripped off earners. I know we never will find that out but it still would be interesting.

Again, I'm applying the laws I know of from the US, the UK could be far different but I know many of your laws are similar to ours in many instances.

.............

 

[noneedforaname]

In terms of the UK you often see assembly jobs advertised with very high salaries, however they are actually paid minimum wage with piece rate making up the rest of the salary, this is often unobtainable. I would imagine this is the sort of contract that they are on and workers often end up working for a lot less than they first thought.

This similar to the adverbs for telesales Jobs using the old chestnut of "on top earnings".

 

[kathrynloch]

And there ya go - what you underlined would be the same here. CONTRACT. As I said, here you're either at-will or contract. Our lady who presses for a per piece wage, she's contract. I don't know about there but here waiters/waitresses/food servers are paid an hourly rate BELOW minimum wage. It's one of the few professions where they allow this. They get tips which apparently makes up for the wage shortage. Tele-sales (key word sales) would fall under commission here. It may or may not be contract but some places pay a base rate plus a certain percentage of sales the employee makes over the phone or some don't pay anything except for commission at all. If you don't sell, you don't eat.

It sounds like the larger points are similar but the specifics are different. Ours - if you work over a four hour shift, the company must give you a break. But how long that is depends on the company. Minimum half hour lunch. I have an hour lunch where I work but I still work 8 hour days. I just leave later.

Anyways, it sounds very possible there could be Blister Sisters working for a per piece wage.

 

[xaeromancer]

oh please. you realize im talking about the 90s ones right, the box set came with that crapy looking chaplain...

you must hate variety. please explain what made those crap old models "light years" ahead.

The old Death Company were pretty standard to the marine miniatures at the time. The arms, shoulders pads and backpacks were the ones used on all marines; this was well before the sculpted pauldrons become an option. Also, jump packs weren't standard in the Death Company back then. Thunder hammers, purity seals, what have you, weren't even an option.

Plus, they were about £25- which was still a lot, considering.

But the main point is that although they had a little flash and maybe some mould lines (certainly not as much as modern miniatures, though,) they didn't generally have voids and vast skeins of flash all over them.

 

[me_in_japan]

gnnnaagh! Sorry - I have to vent. I know it will make no difference, but I figured this thread (to start with, at least) was a place to give one's opinion about GW sales policy...

I was looking at my dark eldar today. I set my army up on the table and I thought, "hmmn. Pretty good. But if I split this 10 man squad of kabalites into 2 five man squads, I can do one of them up as trueborn and put them in a dakka venom. Aha, but I dont have a spare venom model. Ok, so I will buy one."

I then go to the GW Japan site, which, since I live in Japan (not Tokyo) is the ONLY place in the world I can buy GW models from now, since GW laid in their trade embargo. "How much for a venom, I wonder?" I muse to myself, as I peruse the site.

4100yen, plus shipping (that's 32.40pounds, according to xe.com)

How much from Wayland?

14.80pounds

Piss off, GW, really.

*MiJ sits in corner and fumes*

 

[Dragonsreach]

gnnnaagh! Sorry - I have to vent. I know it will make no difference, but I figured this thread (to start with, at least) was a place to give one's opinion about GW sales policy...

Aha, but I dont have a spare venom model. Ok, so I will buy one."
4100yen, plus shipping (that's 32.40pounds, according to xe.com)

How much from Wayland?
14.80pounds

Piss off, GW, really.

*MiJ sits in corner and fumes*

Sounds like you need to contact Family in the UK to cost up the shipping, either that or someone you trust over here not to stitch you up.

 

[me_in_japan]

feeling a bit less fumy now

Yeah, you're right - getting stuff posted to my folks in the UK would definitely be the way to do it. The only thing that gives me pause for thought is whether I want the mini enough to give money to a company that treats its overseas customers with this kind of disdain. That and the fact that I already get my folks to send over PS3 games (cos theyre in English. I tried Final Fantasy 12 in Japanese, I really did try. Never again....), and I appreciate that it can be a pain in the rear to have to go to the post office all the time just to send me toys. Being in my early 30s, they think I shouldve grown out of this kind of thing by now...

 

[Dragonsreach]

Being in my early 30s, they think I shouldve grown out of this kind of thing by now...

Ahem, Rapidly approaching late Fifties, and I couldn't care what people think.

 

[xaeromancer]

4100yen, plus shipping (that's 32.40pounds, according to xe.com)

How much from Wayland?

14.80pounds

That's utterly ridiculous. Still, it does seem that the number one game at GW is currently Monopoly.

 

[TrystanGST]

Their pricing is all over the place.

Finecast Vlad? $18
Finecast Cocktrice? $35
Finecast Kroq-Gar? $66

Huh?

 

[finn17]

you must hate variety. please explain what made those crap old models "light years" ahead.

I have lots of the old metal ones and lots of the new plastic ones...I prefer the metal ones...that's my opinion.

Which bit of, "Opinions are like arseholes...everybody has one" did you not understand?

 

[jahminis]

Ahem, Rapidly approaching late Fifties, and I couldn't care what people think.

i think that's great...
just sayin', not that you'd care...

my biggest worry about Finecast, as a commission painter with quite high prices, is the rumor about the minis melting in the heat...
i am worried that i may accept a commission for a centerpiece mini, go through the hassle of getting an acceptable cast, spend the time to thoroughly prep the mini, paint it to a high standard, and get it safely to my client, only to have it slowly wilt away in the display case...
anyone have any concrete evidence for this rumor (i've read it in numerous reviews)...
i'm not about to pay $20 to test this theory, but it is hot enough here in the tropics right now that i would find out pretty fast...

this has me thinking i will not accept any commissions of Finecast minis...
seen as how GW minis are my bread and butter, this worries me...
i can't afford to turn away the customers that are happy to pay my rates, but i can't bring myself to feel good about charging top dollar for a mini that may melt...

i love resin...
metal is fine, and plastic is cool for all the options, but resin is my true love...
the detail is incredible...
Studio McVey is a great example of why resin rocks (their caster is using the best material i've encountered)...
Forgeworld is a bitch, with warped parts like Hydra gun barrels, but chunkier stuff never really has that issue, and everything straightens out with some hot water...
Privateer Press' resin hybrid has a lot of horrendous moldlines, but at least there stuff is hard...
how is the softness of finecast realy a plus...
should i be happy that my mini carries a floppy sword???

i am really not looking forward to my first Finecast mini, which is a shame because the detail does look beautiful on a nice cast...

cheers
jah

 

[TrystanGST]

I don't think direct sunlight is going to be a problem. Heat is. Which means a display case in a home or store is OK, but the dash of a car on a 100 degree day isn't. But that's true of anything resin or even plastic. Not just finecast.

 

[DVS Design]

Yep I have done a few for ebay and they have all made it to their new homes doing the summer time. A few have gone half way around the world. If shipping some where with a fairly decent postal serves you should be fine the worst you may get is a bent sword blade or some thing which is posable with any resins.

I just dislike the softness its easy to accidentally mar the model while working and the quality control at the price piont. I would not be quite so grumpy at them if they did not already have a company under them with years of experiance doing resins to learn from lol.

 

[Einion]

Which bit of, "Opinions are like arseholes...everybody has one" did you not understand?

And which bit of you've been here for five minutes and you're picking on someone with 8,500 posts did he not get? :cute:

Einion

 

[MrPickles]

And which bit of you've been here for five minutes and you're picking on someone with 8,500 posts did he not get? :cute:

Einion

i asked for his reasoning as to why he thinks the old ones are light years ahead. it's a bold statement. if he said "i just prefer old school stuff", or "i like to keep it simple" then fine. but light years ahead?


im tempted to dig up pics of the old death company and post it beside the new but no point in adding insult to injury.

 

[Einion]

i asked for his reasoning as to why he thinks the old ones are light years ahead.

Achem, "What's your reasoning?" is asking for his reasoning. What you posted? Something else entirely.

...

Back to GW Failcast....

this has me thinking i will not accept any commissions of Finecast minis...

Have to be honest, in your shoes I might too.

The heat thing really bothers me. If we assume they can sort out the casting and their QC - no matter how well, to the point that 99% of the castings consumer see are essentially flawless (yeah, that'll happen) - this will still be a major issue, in a warehouse, the back of a delivery truck, an uninsulated attic or garage it can get plenty bloody hot. No need to be in the tropics or subtropics for that.

And how many of us routinely use a hairdryer to help speed-dry between coats?

Einion

 

[TrystanGST]

Probably a safe bet. Recently at the GW store, I took a look at a Vlad and a few Konrads. Vlad's sword was bent 90 degrees, and half the hilt was missing.

Both Konrads had short shots on the blood on the sword.

On the other hand, the Vlad I got was really quite nice, and the Cockatrice was near flawless. It's light, easy to work, but like any resin sensitive to heat.

It's really a matter of the thickness of the piece. Your finecast mini isn't going to turn into a puddle of goo. The spear/sword/banner pole might sag, but you think those super fine Kingdom Death minis are immune to this? I've straightened thinner Forgeworld pieces by breathing on them.

 

[Mr.S.Marbo]

They are packaged in the UK correct? Is that even legal across the pond?

Any deduction in gross wages for quality errors would have to comply with the Nation Minimum Wage legislation. So GW couldn't pay someone just the National Minimum Wage and then turn around and deduct from this amounts for faulty work which would be illegal (no matter what the employment contract states terms that are illegal cannot be enforced (such silly things such as "management accept no responsibility for death or injury however this occurred" is simply worthless - and makes me laugh every time I see it). You cannot sign away rights given to you by law. However I could see them starting at wage above the National Minimum Wage and then deducting pay for faults and defects as long as this doesn't take their pay below the National Minimum Wage, but that sounds nasty!

However where you have workers who do "piece or output work" (workers paid for the amounts they do such as the number of things made or tasks completed and can choose their hours) what counts as the Nation Minimum Wage is less strict. The employer has the choice of either paying:

1) The National Minimum Wage for each hour worked (£5.93 per hour worked for workers over 21).
2) A ‘fair’ piece rate for each piece produced or task performed.

The “fair piece rate” for whatever the worker has produced (or the task they have performed) is the one that allows workers of average speed to earn the national minimum wage. This is set so that the piece rate has to be multiplied by 1.2, ensuring that workers whose output is below average (perhaps because they are learning a new task) can still earn the minimum wage. (This is subject to extra conditions)

To use the fair piece rate the workers MUST be able to choose their own hours, if the employer fixes their hours then the fair piece rate cannot be used and the employer must pay £5.93 per hour for each employee over 21 regardless of their output.

It would be interesting to see what GW does. They key question is probably where the Blister Sisters Work. If it is on a GW site then that suggests their hours are fixed by GW and therefore they must be paid at least the National Minimum Wage regardless of output and / or quality.

 

[Shawn R. L.]

A bit of a comparison. I just bought a Tyranid Pyrovore cast in metal. I found it, overall, to be much cleaner casting than the Finecast. The mold alingment was a bit better. Some of the tiny detail was slightly 'softer'....not as crisp. I find the metal on the whole to be a better casting. Still, the Finecast weren't BAD, they were good, just the metal one (at least this one) is a bit better..........IMHO.​