MIG Metallic Pigments...Thoughts and Questions?

[mountaincycle661]

So I'm going to paint a grey knights army and I need to do so quickly to meet a deadline...but I dont want them to look like crap either. I'll probably go with Army Painter's metallic silver spray to start however I've stumbled across MIG's metallic pigments line and heard from somebody that they can REALLY enhance metallics. I thought this would be ideal for the large amounts of silver you would find on grey knight models, but I've yet to see any real examples of models painted with this product though. And any google search just brings up retails for the product, instead of pictures of what it can actually do.

So a few questions to start the discussion with:

1 - Have you used the METALLIC pigments from MIG before?
2 - What is the ideal use for them (fine details? large flat surfaces? something else?)
3 - How are they best applied? Brushing them on dry? In a fixer? water? etc.
4 - Any pitfalls in using this product? (dont mix them with XYZ! Yikes!)
5 - Some metallic pigments can be buffed after application to make them really shine! Is this the case with the MIG's?

Any help with this product would be great as Im at a loss here. Long time lurker, first time poster, reaching out for help!

Thanks guys!

 

[kathrynloch]

I haven't used MIG, I use Jacquard Pearl-Ex metallic pigments. But I'd be willing to bet they are very similar. You can see how I applied them in my Step One....WIP thread. That links to the first post where I apply the metallic pigments to a knight's armor using Colour Shapers tools. (I seal my pigments with Dull Coat to get them to stay and yes, too much Dull Coat takes the shine out of them - for armor only you may want to try a gloss or satin sealer.)

The entire - LONG - thread discusses "painting with pigments" in general, not just metallics so you might find it helpful. I paint my horses with regular pigments and do a step by step on painting the knight's cloak with them too.

But in general metallic pigments differ from regular pigments in a couple of ways.

For metallics, basecoat in black - this makes them pop. Regular pigments, base coat white because they are a translucent tint and take their color from the layer below. You have to build to the color you want, you don't need to do that with metallics (although you can blend and shade with them).

Trying to apply metallic pigments with just a brush turns into a glittery mess! The Colour Shapers (and Clay Shapers) are worth their weight in gold and allow you to get into those tiny spots for fine detail.

You'll see many more specifics in my thread but that's the general over-view. Like i said, it's not MIG but I have a feeling a lot of things are going to be the same.

Good luck and let me know if you run into questions! I'm happy to help!

 

[mountaincycle661]

Wow! Thanks for the great feedback/response! A friend suggested that I post my question on here saying that the community is very supportive...I can see he was very, very right!

You got some really awesome weathered armor on that rider. But what about shiny grey knights...straight from the Auto Body and Power Armor Paintjob Superstore? Would the metallic pigments help in achieving a powerful sheen? I guess another important question would be can you get a great looking metallic effect by applying the pigments on large surfaces (like terminator legs and shoulderpads etc) or is it really only useful for highlighting the edges of armor (or other small details)?

Had a good time going through your horse article. Lots of info in there! Thanks for all the help!

Cheers

 

[kathrynloch]

You're welcome! Oh yes, you can get very shiny armor with the pigments. In fact, I've gotten so I prefer the pigment over silver metallic paint in certain instances. But think of it just as you would silver paint. I don't know if MIG does this but Pearl Ex has different color of silvers. Antique Silver = Boltgun Silver, Regular Silver = Mithril Silver, there's even a while metallic pigment that you can use for the brightest shine.

For a gray knight, I would use a satin sealer. High gloss works too but you'll notice a difference if you have to work in layers, the pigments stick to high gloss differently than satin and matte sealers.

If you only have one color of silver, I would get some regular pigments too - black and white. Mix some silver in a separate container with a little black. There's your Boltgun/Chainmail Silver. In another, mix Silver with a little white pigment. There's your Mithril or highlight silver. Or if you have a metallic white pigment, use that by itself. The one thing nice about Pearl-Ex is that it's available at Hobby and Craft stores locally. I'm not sure where you're at but if you have a Hobby Lobby you can find a starter set cheap in the Scrapbook aisle. So you can get at least Macropearl and Micropearl and use those for highlighting.

If you just have one color of silver and nothing else to mix with it or do not want to mix, you can still achieve the look you want but you'll need to layer and will definitely need a satin or high gloss spray sealer. You may want to get a practice model first because you'll need to get the hang of applying spray sealer to pigment. Apply too much, you'll get drips and streaks. Hold the can too close and you'll blow the pigment right off or move it. You'll also want to see if the MIG pigments change colors under sealer. Pearl-Ex doesn't but I have no idea of the quality of MIG, so it might change color when you seal.

If you mix your pigments with the black and white or get some additional Pearl-Ex, let me know and I'll describe that technique. For here, I'll assume you have only one color of silver and a satin or high gloss spray sealer.

As I said, start with a black base coat, nice and dry. Apply your silver with a Colour or Clay Shaper. I'm serious, applying with a brush just makes a huge mess. If you have one of those sponge applicators they work but get caught on the detail. Also a cotton swab, preferably one of those pointed ones for applying make up work pretty well but again can get snagged on detail.

Apply your pigment, then carefully blow off any excess powder. This is important because you'll get mud if you seal with it on. I use canned air so I don't spit on the model. lol! But don't hold it too close, you can blow off all of the pigment.

Seal the layer. After the sealer is dry, go back and do it again. Build up in layers and you will achieve the look you're going for. Yes, you can get that powerful sheen on large areas. Treat it a lot like paint in the idea of working in layers and shading and highlights. If I was painting a shoulder pad for example, I'd cover the entire area first layer, second layer I'd not apply the silver on the edges...I'd leave those with just the one layer, move in slightly and start my application, seal again, then move in a little, apply and seal again.

With Pearl Ex, that's all I need to get a nice bright sheen.

If this is confusing, my apologies, let me know and I'll post some photos for you. I have a couple of minis I can use to demonstrate and it will make a lot more sense. lol!

I gotta run and get a contest entry in before deadline but I'll check back afterwards.

 

[mountaincycle661]

Jumpin jesus on a pogo stick! Its like I just tapped into the Painters Tech Support line haha! Seriously man, thanks for all the great advice!

It sounds like you can really get some badass silver armor using these techniques. But theres one problem: Im on a deadline now. You see, Ive got a 2000pt ultramarines army Im painting up for a massive diorama. Its actually a compilation of the best miniatures Ive painted, chaos vs ultramarines, and its going to be my senior exhibition project. I just found out my deadline got moved a whole MONTH earlier than expected and when I look down at what Ive got as far as loyalists go...its a little lacking. So I thought *BAM!* Grey Knights! Low model count, awesome models, can bolster the loyalist forces to balance the diorama...perfect! But the ultramarines are painted to my BEST standard right now, which takes a long time to paint. So I need to be able to paint up about 10-15 grey knights quickly and effectively in time for the show...

Heres my train of thought. Maybe you can leave some advice on this:

1. Assemble and spray grey knights with Army Painter Chainmail color/primer
2. Block in colors on the details...paint thier books red, skulls and purity seals bone color, gold details, etc. No highlighting or washing...just get the basics on there.
3. Dip 'em in the Army Painter quickshade, then let them dry for 24 hours and matte seal them (I use testors dullcote)
4. Attend to any simple and easy highlights to make the basics pop out.
5. Shine up thier armor and really make it brilliant using the silver metallic pigments!
6. Base 'em...real simple city fight bases to match the board they will be on.

Done!

Normally, I wouldnt mind really taking the time and all the stages to work up the layers and make them really bad ass (hell, thats what im doing with the ultramarines!). But Im short on time and looking to see if the metallic pigments would be an easy finishing *POW* on the shiny metallic armor. As Ive never used metallic pigments before, Im wondering if Im barking up the wrong tree. I'd like to find out for sure before I invest in the pigments, special brushes, shipping charges, etc.

Again, I cant thank you enough for the help

 

[kathrynloch]

lol! Pogo stick is right! Okay, here's what I'd do if I was you. Slap some black paint on a basic flat surface area of a test model. A shoulder pad will do or even some sprue. Hit it with a single layer of MIG silver and see how it lays down. Seal it with Dull Cote (I've gotten three layers of Dull Coat on a mini before it takes the punch out of the shine). And see if that gives you the look you want as far as the strength and shine of the pigment. It will also tell you if it will go on easily and quickly - at least enough for your deadline. The problem is I'm not looking at the stuff in person and while I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of the look you want, I can't be positive. If MIG is lower in quality than Pearl-Ex you may not be able to get the look you want without layering.

I do know that if your base is not black the metallic won't shine as nicely. Base coat 'em black, do all those things you said you would do (but I'm not sure about the quick shade, never used that stuff - is it black/very dark?) then hit the black armor with the shiny pigments. They won't pop if you're using a flat gray or a metallic silver paint as a base. If you use metallic silver paint as a base, that's when the silver pigments work best as an edge or top highlight. Since you're looking for shine and speed, going with plain black and metallic pigment is the best.

In fact, once you've sealed the pigment with dull coat you can paint over it just like any other layer. So if you want switch number 4 and 5 around. Use the pigments, seal, then hit the highlights. If you need to seal one last time that should allow you to do so without dulling the metallic.

Again I can't over-stress testing this stuff tho. Grab some sprue, paint it black, apply pigment, seal with dull coat and let it sit for a day or two. I want to make sure MIG isn't going to change color or do something funky when you least expect it. It might not do it right away. It might take it 24 hours or even two days before it changes color. I've had cheaper pastels do that to me before. Believe me it absolutely SUCKS when something like that happens, especially if it's right before you're suppossed to walk out the door with it.

I wish you weren't so pressed for time. I've been having a blast experimenting with this pigment stuff. Using different mediums keeps things fresh and interesting. I have a feeling you'd enjoy it too - so when you're done with this, go back and try the metallics on something that doesn't have a deadline. lol!

Oh here, let me show you something.

View attachment 7827

Okay the blue is Pearl-Ex pigment, sealed with Dull Cote. Then I painted the feather tips with black and white acrylic. The pigments hold up just fine once they are sealed. They even hold up to washes and inks as long as you don't go too crazy with them.

I hope this helps!! I think we can get you rolling with your pigments as long as MIG has the chops to stand up to the tough stuff.

 

[mountaincycle661]

Wow! those wings look awesome! Ive always found that one of the hardest things for me to paint are feathered wings. I have a lot of tzeentchian/winged demon models and the feathers are always a pain. I might start investing in more than just metallic pigments...

The quickshade stuff is something Ive recently been made aware of. Link:

http://usshop.thearmypainter.com/products.php?ProductGroupId=1

Its basically a big bucket of wash, but its a generic color wash that pretty much works on every level. I admit, its not the most glorious method of painting, but when you need to paint 120 orks without losing your mind, Army Painter's got the right idea! Take a look at the examples they have on the website. Pretty neat stuff.

Back to the metallic pigments...I'd be stupid to go against your advice, but it seems strange that the metallic pigments work better against a black background as opposed to a matching-color background. To build up the pigments against a black background sounds more difficult than just putting 'em down on a model thats already primed with silver paint. And in the case of speed painting, hitting all the grey knights with a silver spraypaint/primer sounds like it would be waaaaay faster than going in by hand and applying the silver pigments to individual armor segments. I wish I had more time!

Also, how do you actually APPLY the pigments to a model? I mean, do you just apply it dry...right out of the container? Or do you mix it up with water or an acrylic medium or something? Otherwise it just seems like you'd be painting with dust (which sounds very hard and messy!). As for MIG versus the pearl-ex stuff...well, Im not commited to a particular brand really. So if you go with pearl-ex, I might do the same. I just like MIG because I know they've been making pigments specifically for model painting purposes for a very long time, so I trust 'em.

Pictures of examples you've finished would be awesome! The more the merrier!

Thanks again for the help. Back to the painting desk!

 

[kathrynloch]

Wow! those wings look awesome!

Thank you! The pigments make feathers especially soooo much easier. I'll check into the quickshade - but I'm more of a single piece person since no one around here actually plays.

Back to the metallic pigments...I'd be stupid to go against your advice, but it seems strange that the metallic pigments work better against a black background as opposed to a matching-color background. To build up the pigments against a black background sounds more difficult than just putting 'em down on a model thats already primed with silver paint. And in the case of speed painting, hitting all the grey knights with a silver spraypaint/primer sounds like it would be waaaaay faster than going in by hand and applying the silver pigments to individual armor segments. I wish I had more time!

Black only goes for metallics. They have metal flakes and the black base gives them more shine. If you use a base other than black you get this shiny pastel color that probably won't really work for what you want. You really don't need to build them up a lot, at least in comparison to regular pigments. Regular colored pigments are a translucent tint and you have to start with a white base to build up their color. If you page through my thread to the knight's cloak, you'll see what happens on a darker background with regular pigments.

Let's see - oh here's a great metallic pigment example I just finished not too long ago.

This is the shield to my Chaos Knight that I painted as the Storm King - the step by step is also in my thread. All of that is metallic pigment. The red was an experiment for making copper with only silver pigment. It turned out okay but I like the regular pigment against the black base better.

Horse armor, knight's armor...heck anything metal was mostly done in metallic pigment. Only some really tight spots did I have to use acrylics. Even the mane, tail and eyes on the horse are metallic pigments. The coat color is regular pigments.

Don't forget the horse in my avatar! Her black spots were done with regular pigments, starting with a light yellow ocher and building all the way up to the dark color you see. The white markings are acrylics. Lots and lots of thinned acrylics.

Also, how do you actually APPLY the pigments to a model? I mean, do you just apply it dry...right out of the container? Or do you mix it up with water or an acrylic medium or something? Otherwise it just seems like you'd be painting with dust (which sounds very hard and messy!). As for MIG versus the pearl-ex stuff...well, Im not commited to a particular brand really. So if you go with pearl-ex, I might do the same. I just like MIG because I know they've been making pigments specifically for model painting purposes for a very long time, so I trust 'em.

Pictures of examples you've finished would be awesome! The more the merrier!

Thanks again for the help. Back to the painting desk!

You paint dust. lol! With metallics, use the Colour Shaper tools. That's the link for the mini ones, they work perfect for our stuff. I have both the firm and extra firm and they are fantastic. They're rubber tipped tools and you put them in the pigment, tap off the excess and apply directly to the model. When you have all of your color applied, carefully blow off any excess and seal with dull coat or your sealer of preference. That's what makes 'em stick. If you use a brush and try to apply metallics dry, yes, it is a glittery POOF and a cloud forms. Your model will look like Tinkerbell got drunk and collided with it. The metallic dust gets everywhere. The Colour Shapers stop the POOF! lol! It's still messy but not near as bad. Of course, I'm messy with acrylics too because I'm constantly wiping my brush on the paper towel I work on.

Regular pigments, I use Earth Pigments - HUGE jars, very inexpensive and they last forever plus are nontoxic. Some pigments, especially for oil painting, can contain bad things like Cadmium and stuff. I apply those with just a regular cheapie nylon brush and seal each layer.

Regular pigments - start off white base, lightest color you have.

Seal and do another layer - repeat until you build up to the color you want gradually going darker.

When you reach that color, seal again and then you can apply acrylics and paint the details normally.

And there ya go. The interesting part is that I did this one before I discovered the Colour Shapers so I used metallic paint and not the pigments on the bells and stuff. I hated metallics because they were so hard to control.

So that's basically it in a nutshell.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Having used MIG's Metallic Pigments a few time, I agree they are fantastic. Having compared Mig's and Valljo's pigments, I much prefer Mig's. I really have issues using the Vallejo's, they seem to be much leaner and don't stick well to the surface they're applied to. I don't have experience with other brands yet so won't offer any provider-related advice.

I feel pigments are best used for weathering and detailwork, and building up the layers can become time-consuming. If you're working on a time contraint and need to build up 10-15 models, I'd suggest using an airbrush to do the initial paint job, especially if you're painting them to your highest standard. Pigments aren't that complicated to use, but there's still a learning curve. Of course, if you don't own an airbrush forget it... Otherwise, you'l be able to do your basecoats and zenithal highlight and shadows quickly to prepare for the detail work.

My 2 cents.

 

[mountaincycle661]

This community is fantastic...Thanks you guys for the help, seriously!

It looks like I'll pick up the MIG metallic set and a couple of those rubber shaper "brushes" and just have a go. There comes a time when all the theory painting and discussion has to make way for just DOING IT and seeing how it works out for yourself. As Im on a deadline, that time was last week haha! As for the airbrush...man, I would LOVE to have one. Ive seen several peoples' videos where they paint up grey knight models with air brushes and they look insane. But its just too far outside of my budget for now. But one day....one day....

I figure that a days worth of experimentation will let me know how to proceed in the best manner possible. I have a feeling like the quickshade is going to be the best course of action because of the the speed in which you can complete several models. After all is said and done though, if I dont end up using the metallics on the grey knights, I will surely learn to use them to great effect on other models further down the line. Besides, Im looking to paint up the grey knights force, have it for my show, then sell it anyways. So who knows...Maybe ill re-purchase them and paint 'em up real nice further down the road!

Time to get the ball rolling! Thanks a million for the insight. Ill be sure to let you know how they turn out (with pics!)

Cheers!

 

[finn17]

This community is fantastic...

Well, Kathryn is certainly fantastic...