Finecast & Wayland
- Thread starter RuneBrush
- Start date
dogfacedboy uk1
New member
Blimey, thats a harsh story lol, and I thought I was joking - well found lol. Seriously though, don't mess with my C - A - K - E - S.....
dfb
Talion
New member
I've noticed Wayland Games has now started selling Finecast mini's.......however they have added a statement to them, which I'm not sure is something to be concerned about.
I quote
"Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase. Your statutory rights are unaffected."
although it states "Your statutory rights are unaffected".......Just adding this note to seems to say, we are warning you it may be crap, and don't buy if your not willing to accept it, and don't blame us if what you receive is crap.
Or am I being to synical????
I quote
"Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase. Your statutory rights are unaffected."
although it states "Your statutory rights are unaffected".......Just adding this note to seems to say, we are warning you it may be crap, and don't buy if your not willing to accept it, and don't blame us if what you receive is crap.
Or am I being to synical????
I think it's actually a customer service message, i.e. I am warning you you may be disappointed; rather than have you go to the hassle of returning it, if you're not up to it don't buy it. It's the same thing a clerk at a model kit store might say to a beginner buying a 6 mast sailing ship with full rigging.. "are you sure? You might not have much fun with this unless you know what you're doing."
Talion
New member
I dont think its quite the same, as they are not saying its might be too difficuly to build, but it might be too difficult for you to fix the broken bits. I just don't think it needs to say if you don't think you can fix it dont buy it.
I should judge what I deem fixable and return anything I don't think is up to standard. As long as it's not abused to not accept returns.
I don't think you're being cynical at all...They have as good as stated they believe the product to be largely crap, but I guess they feel pressurised to sell the stuff by their customers. I think their statement is up-front and honest, especially in the light of their other comments about shitecast.
minimart
New member
If that's the case then it's pretty much a no win situation for them? If I warn you the product isn't great and you may be disappointed, I'm implying I don't want returns even though I state your statutory rights are unaffected (note: I don't read that in their statement at all). If I don't warn you, and you expect a perfect cast, and I cannot satisfy you, I am setting myself up for return-o-rama, rounds and rounds of returns because I did not set your expectations correctly, and I will likely lose you as a customer.
I doubt they can say, for instance, "Frankly this product is inconsistent and more often than not will not match what you see in the marketing material. We're only selling it so that we can give you complete service for GW models, and do not want you to purchase these products unless you are familiar with the possible issues." It might be true, but that would probably nuke their relationship with GW.
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
How many people commenting in this thread have actually gone to a store and looked at finecast the last couple of weeks? 
The good part is that everyone at the local LGS have turned into me. I sometimes went through 4-5 GW metal blisters before I found one I thought was OK, nobody used to do that. But now people look very careful at the packages and are more active as consumers. Which is good.
However. A comparison. When Finecast first showed up I went through 6-7 packages of a space marine librarian to find one or two that I think was free from miscasts. Last week I looked through Bragg the gutsman and out of 8 packages 6 had no visible miscasts. According to our LGS shopmanager every batch of finecast increases the QC. He claims that the QC is now approximately like the GW white metal. That doesn't mean it's superb though, there has always been a lot of kinks with GW, but they are decent. What I didn't like with the Braggs is that I think the mouldlines were a bit more pronounced then what I would consider good.
The detail of the wellcasted finecast miniatures far surpasses the white metal ones (if the sculpts allow) and are much easier to work with. And if you couple that with GW's return policies which are great, I don't really see the issue with castings anymore unless you're buying online. At our LGS the shopmanager even opens all Finecast packages and we can dryfit the pieces together.
BUT. What has always been my main concern, and still is, is the heat issue. I want to see some more test to see how much heat it takes for them to deform. I don't want to spend a lot of hours on a mini, or paint for a customer, and then have them deform. I still haven't seen any conclusive tests. If it is avoidable, like putting the blister in the backwindow in a hot car, I'm of course ok with it. Otherwise...
I found these tests and they are a bit promising though.
The good part is that everyone at the local LGS have turned into me. I sometimes went through 4-5 GW metal blisters before I found one I thought was OK, nobody used to do that. But now people look very careful at the packages and are more active as consumers. Which is good.However. A comparison. When Finecast first showed up I went through 6-7 packages of a space marine librarian to find one or two that I think was free from miscasts. Last week I looked through Bragg the gutsman and out of 8 packages 6 had no visible miscasts. According to our LGS shopmanager every batch of finecast increases the QC. He claims that the QC is now approximately like the GW white metal. That doesn't mean it's superb though, there has always been a lot of kinks with GW, but they are decent. What I didn't like with the Braggs is that I think the mouldlines were a bit more pronounced then what I would consider good.
The detail of the wellcasted finecast miniatures far surpasses the white metal ones (if the sculpts allow) and are much easier to work with. And if you couple that with GW's return policies which are great, I don't really see the issue with castings anymore unless you're buying online. At our LGS the shopmanager even opens all Finecast packages and we can dryfit the pieces together.
BUT. What has always been my main concern, and still is, is the heat issue. I want to see some more test to see how much heat it takes for them to deform. I don't want to spend a lot of hours on a mini, or paint for a customer, and then have them deform. I still haven't seen any conclusive tests. If it is avoidable, like putting the blister in the backwindow in a hot car, I'm of course ok with it. Otherwise...
I found these tests and they are a bit promising though.
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RuneBrush
New member
Cheers Avelorn, it's nice to know that they're improving the QC process. In all honesty I know everybody (me included) have been very quick to criticise the poor quality combined with a price rise but it's encouraging that GW are beginning to rectify this and delivering the higher detailed mini's we'd like. At some point, when funds allow, I may purchase a Finecast mini
Avelorn
Sven Jonsson
Obviously the product wasn't finished when they released it which is poor form. Had they released it at the current state and wouldn't coupled it with the pathetic sales overstating pitch about the merits of the material I think people would have been more forgiving. There will always be some airbubbles in this stuff but the first batch sometimes looked like swiss cheese, and a very pricey cheese it was.
That said and as I've said earlier. Having worked with the stuff not only does it allow for a resin amount of details, I think it's the best material I've used to date to clean and convert and it takes superglue very well. It's a bit soft for thin swords and spears, but that's it. I think most will come to realise that as well and I bet other companies will follow in the coming years. They won't call it finecast though...
There will always be some airbubbles in this stuff but the first batch sometimes looked like swiss cheese, and a very pricey cheese it was. That said and as I've said earlier. Having worked with the stuff not only does it allow for a resin amount of details, I think it's the best material I've used to date to clean and convert and it takes superglue very well. It's a bit soft for thin swords and spears, but that's it. I think most will come to realise that as well and I bet other companies will follow in the coming years. They won't call it finecast though...
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DannyBoy2k
New member
I can't say as how I really know one way or the other...the sound of stuff that I have to look through to see if I want to buy it, well, that doesn't really float my boat, as it were.
Oh, and either way? I found this amusing.
Oh, and either way? I found this amusing.
Pictish Mini Painting
I'm actually a man!
Ha Ha, that is quite funny.
However to be fair to GW i think they made a rod for their own back by converting the ENTIRE metal range in one go.
I think they should have started with some of the new figures\sculpts as the test, then gradually bring in the older stuff over a period of months etc.
I bought 2 finecast models when they came out, an astorath the grim, and terminator wolf lord with axe.
I had the metal astorath and when comparing the models the detail level was considerably better with finecast, specifically around the skull shoulder pad, however there were some small bubbles, but nothing major.
The wolf lord terminator, had one major issue, the front of the shin armour has a big-ish divet in it, which will need some filling and sanding, but that's it.
So i must have been quite lucky. However i do know a lot of people had lots of issues, that were more than being a bit pissy, they had whole arms or heads missing etc.
GW will sort it out, they always do, however i recently bought a Lufght Huron model from FW, and the right5r arm had a bent and broken shoulder pad edge, a small thing, but a nuisance when painting for competition etc, i e-mailed to ask if i could buy a replacement, they simply asked for a batch number and said they would send out a replacement free.
Excellent customer service, i even get to keep the slightly damaged arm, which is handy as i got a spare left gun arm in the bag, so i will have a pair of very gorgeous arms for a conversion i may fancy.
happy days.
However to be fair to GW i think they made a rod for their own back by converting the ENTIRE metal range in one go.
I think they should have started with some of the new figures\sculpts as the test, then gradually bring in the older stuff over a period of months etc.
I bought 2 finecast models when they came out, an astorath the grim, and terminator wolf lord with axe.
I had the metal astorath and when comparing the models the detail level was considerably better with finecast, specifically around the skull shoulder pad, however there were some small bubbles, but nothing major.
The wolf lord terminator, had one major issue, the front of the shin armour has a big-ish divet in it, which will need some filling and sanding, but that's it.
So i must have been quite lucky. However i do know a lot of people had lots of issues, that were more than being a bit pissy, they had whole arms or heads missing etc.
GW will sort it out, they always do, however i recently bought a Lufght Huron model from FW, and the right5r arm had a bent and broken shoulder pad edge, a small thing, but a nuisance when painting for competition etc, i e-mailed to ask if i could buy a replacement, they simply asked for a batch number and said they would send out a replacement free.
Excellent customer service, i even get to keep the slightly damaged arm, which is handy as i got a spare left gun arm in the bag, so i will have a pair of very gorgeous arms for a conversion i may fancy.
happy days.
Conor mcgerson
New member
Reading through the replies, it seems like the biggest frustration wasn't the switch to resin itself—it was the inconsistent quality control. Most people are willing to accept a new manufacturing process if the end product is reliable, but repeated defects quickly erode trust.
That discussion actually reminds me of some of the points covered in ISO training. A well-defined quality management process is meant to catch those kinds of issues before products reach customers, which is exactly where this rollout seems to have struggled.
That discussion actually reminds me of some of the points covered in ISO training. A well-defined quality management process is meant to catch those kinds of issues before products reach customers, which is exactly where this rollout seems to have struggled.
