Kicking it up a notch.

Un1cornTears

New member
@Dragonsreach

The linked miniatures are beautiful! I would love to pick your brain...Do you ever mix Acrylics and Oils?
Is it easier to get a smoother finish with oils (because they are more buttery than plastic-y)?

I have only been painting the 28 mm guys, hence my skepticism...but I would definitely try oils if I get some larger models.
I apologize if you have already posted about these things, then perhaps just a link will do!
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
@Dragonsreach

The linked miniatures are beautiful!
Ooops I hope I haven't given you the impression that any of those spectacular busts etc are mine. They aren't (Would that I could get that good a result).
I would love to pick your brain..(Not Much there sorry to say) .
Do you ever mix Acrylics and Oils? Yes and No. There are Water Soluble Oils which can be mixed with Acrylics and the results I've gotten were hit and miss to say the least. Ordinary Oils and Acrylics don't normally mix due to differing drying rates and formulae. In fact you're recommended to put Oils on top of acrylics if working with the two mediums because of that problem.
Now I've used oils on top of acrylics to very good effect for something unusual.
I had to repair my mother-in-laws Bosson Pathan Bust.

View attachment 12049

Due to a gravity induced staircase interface this needed a lot of work. In order to get the skinlooking like it should I resorted to acrylic base coats and oil wash shading.
I also had to use a lot of Pro-Create to replace the broken beard hair, due to the surface texture oils were an exteremely handy tool to use to get the turban and shirt cloth colours to blend together.
I don't have a Photograph of mine, but it's pretty close to this one.
Is it easier to get a smoother finish with oils (because they are more buttery than plastic-y)?
You can get fine smooth surfaces with Oils just as with Acrylics you just have to use the right mediums to get the effects.

I have only been painting the 28 mm guys, hence my skepticism...but I would definitely try oils if I get some larger models.
I apologize if you have already posted about these things, then perhaps just a link will do!
If you want to look at working on larger scale stuff and want a practise piece then hunt around on eBay for Bossons stuff, especially pieces that need repair as they are cheaper.
That way you can get practise on working with repair putties and shaping and also matching colours. As well as working with Oils over Acrylics.
One Caveat about Bossons they are made from a chalk like material and can soak up paint/water like no-ones business, and they can be heavy for long term holding.
 

redarmy27

New member
Sorry for my lack of reply, but work has been utterly hectic in the past few weeks that I've been barely even able to pick up a brush, but now that I have some time this weekend I can really get down to business. I received a nice big order of Jo Sonja Artist Acrylics and I love them!!

I also use artists paints, and well I'm a golden fanboy, though lascaux are creeping into my palette more and more. Einion and I disagree on the best paints (which is as much as matter of price and taste as anything else there are many good choices), but he is right about the advantages and pitfalls associated with any artists paints. Though I confess I also disagree on the relative cost difference, GW paints are hugely expensive for value, in my opinion. While it is true artists colors are more expensive, they give you more paint, so cost per ml is pretty close, if you shop right (and blick is a good place to start). One line i would consider is lascaux studio, they won't break the bank, and they dry to a beautiful satin (though I would stay away from their metals, the pigments are ground too large).
With artists paints, you have to really love the process, because they are more work. I use some additives to acrylics, mostly to deal with glazes and washes, but thinning with water works well. I have used both retarder and open acrylics and find that they don't make wet blending that much easier, but if you are learning these techniques and investment in a drying retardent is not a bad idea.
I think a wet palette is and essential tool in all painting (every golden demon winner I know uses one) but it is even more essential if you are going to use artists paints. Half the joy of using these paints for me comes from the fact that I am forced to mix and explore color. I like vallejo paints just fine, and reaper and foundry, but I found when i was using them, I got a little "paint by numbers" in my approach. Not that this is bad, but it was not fun for me. So the transition to artists colors made me think about mixing, and also forced me to learn color theory, which was probably more helpful in improving painting.
Now I am moving into oils, at least in the for of oil washes and I am again amazed I did not try this sort of thing earlier. I can match the oil's fluidity using acrylics and additives, but I cannot match the oil's ability to be taken up. Being familiar with artists brands I tend to use those (mostly williamsburg and old holland) but I am told the MIG Productions Abeitlung 502 (or somthing like that) are terrific paints. With oils more than acrylics, I would avoid the cheaper brands.
I think an airbrush is essential for a lot of reasons. One less obvious one is the ability to lay thin coats of varnish as you work on the figure without losing detail. This mean you can gloss coat before you apply a wash (or washes) and then put a matt coat over that to continue painting. Again this is just a hidden use, there are tons of interesting stuff that can be done with an airbrush.

One thing to think about when getting paints, its that red, yellow and blue are not really the primary colors you want to mix with. You want to invest in a Magenta, a Cyan, and yellow, preferebly in a non mineral pigment, and mixing these will produce much less frustrating results. I say this because its easy to see a cadmium red or an ultramarine (or cobalt) blue and be taken in by the intensity. this is a good thing, but these are not good colors to mix with.
Other than that, all I can say is explore and enjoy. There are not really a lot of wrong answers with painting, but there is a lot of trial and practice involved.

Thanks for the feedback and advice. I did actually do just what you said as I learned from previous ventures in buying paint. I've learned it's the more subtle variations in different colors that are the best for mixes. They create recognizable colors, yet are unique and a bit more "real" looking. I've used a wet palette for years and I love mine. It is a MUST for mixing paints and to create excellent blends. I'll look into lascaux paints as well. I really like the flat/satin look of Jo Sonja's. I'm really not sure why I never went this route before.

Hi redarmy! I am brand new to miniature painting, but I have been oil painting for 10 years or so.
I am enjoying using acrylics more than I have in the past, I even had some Fluid W&N acrylics on hand that work wonderfully.
Just wanted to comment that I honestly can't imagine painting minis with oil, for a few reasons...
1. The fumes. Close examination of a miniature painted with what is presumably going to need a LOT of additives to thin down (I use heavy yellow turpentine, that is pretty noxious), seems like it would be a headache.
2. The drying time. Oils are never really dry, while I can see the consistency being beautiful, the mini would be endanger of smearing if it touched anything for days. Fingerprints for sure, it is like butter.
3. The entry price. I have tons of tubes of expensive oil paints that I have accumulated over the years, but I paint 3' x 4' wood/canvas/boards etc. and they still last forever. I can't imagine purchasing enough paints to get the same range of color for such tiny figures at once. This could be one of the reasons oil paints do not come in small quantities, it is designed to lay on really thick.

But please update on anything you find...As I have plenty on hand I'd be curious to know if I could in fact paint with them. thanks!

<3rachel
Rachel,

Thanks for the feedback and welcome to the hobby :). I currently only own a few oils, mainly some browns and lighter fleshy colors. I use them as glazes primarily ad then take a hairdryer to them. I do make sure to use plenty of ventilation on them and they do stink, haha.

@Un1cornTears: I can understand your scepticism about using oils on miniatures, especially 28mm scaled ones but painters on Larger (54mm and above) have been using Oils for years.
In fact when I started in the late 60's the modern acrylics we use today didn't exist so on the Napoleonics I screwed up I had to use oils.

As to the drying time, a lot of painters using oils on models use a drying oven. Basically a vented wooden box with a lightbulb.

If you are still dubious have a look here:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?47334-Euro-Militaire-pictures
As a lot of the figures I took pictures of are worked with Oils.

Spot on DR! I really need to make a little box to dry my stuff in, but I'm loving it so far.

@Dragonsreach

The linked miniatures are beautiful! I would love to pick your brain...Do you ever mix Acrylics and Oils?
Is it easier to get a smoother finish with oils (because they are more buttery than plastic-y)?

I have only been painting the 28 mm guys, hence my skepticism...but I would definitely try oils if I get some larger models.
I apologize if you have already posted about these things, then perhaps just a link will do!

Try some bigger minis, you'll LOVE them. The variety is awesome and you can really get yourself into some larger and better details on figures. While bigger figures can be a bit more expensive, the detail and quality are incredibly better.

If you want to look at working on larger scale stuff and want a practise piece then hunt around on eBay for Bossons stuff, especially pieces that need repair as they are cheaper.
That way you can get practise on working with repair putties and shaping and also matching colours. As well as working with Oils over Acrylics.
One Caveat about Bossons they are made from a chalk like material and can soak up paint/water like no-ones business, and they can be heavy for long term holding.

I've moved into larger stuff now, namely 50mm as I've given up the gaming side of things to just focus on the artistic element. I have to say, I'm really enjoying it. I'm actually using Apoxie Sculpt currently to add more to a piece I'm working on. I've never done it before, but I'm really, really enjoying it. I feel like I've hit the reset button on this hobby and am really enjoying it.

All the best,

Jake
 
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