Wet Palette issues

[Egrimm van Horstmann]

I also add some soap to the water. My first attempt without soap started living after a couple of days, but since I add soap, no problems with that. I use several layers of felt cloth as resevoir and baking paper. The cloth is now used for roughly half a year and still no sign of mould and i'm using regular water.

Egrimm

 

[kathrynloch]

:good: Exactly.

I'd never heard of boiling the parchment paper until recently either, but this type of product obviously varies greatly - some benefit from it, others don't need it.

Distilled water is a great choice for stay-wets BTW if you have it available, it can greatly extend the time it takes for the reservoir to go funky with mould and/or bacteria.

Einion

Boiling also helps cut down on bacteria too.

Because I use the smaller plastic things, I have four of them sitting around and swap out as one gets filled up with paint. When I'm done, I rinse off the paper and put them back for next time I need them. Using distilled water, boiling, all of that helps keep stuff from growing - especially in this area where mold grows at the drop of the hat.

I had completely forgotten about the soap trick, I'll probably add that too. Even with everything, I'll still get almost a slime feeling sometimes - I can't see anything but I can feel this slickness on the paper and its a little thick so I rinse it out immediately. It's gotta be bacteria of some sort from rinsing my paper.

 

[Einion]

I also add some soap to the water. My first attempt without soap started living after a couple of days, but since I add soap, no problems with that. I use several layers of felt cloth as resevoir and baking paper. The cloth is now used for roughly half a year and still no sign of mould and i'm using regular water.

Interesting that it made so much difference. I use a quick spray of kitchen surface cleaner in the water usually and it does help, but I don't get as long as six months unless I was careful to store the palette in the fridge when it wasn't in use.

Just to check, when you say soap do you mean dishwashing liquid or something else?

Boiling also helps cut down on bacteria too.

Wouldn't you really have to boil it for a few minutes to make a significant difference? I'd imagine the palette paper is the least of the problems anyway, especially if you have a bleached one. It's not going to be sterile of course, but not teeming with bacterial either - boiled pulp, bleach, hot rollers for pressing. Plus it has to be food-safe, so presumably there are some standard they have to adhere to in terms of how clean the stuff is.

Even with everything, I'll still get almost a slime feeling sometimes - I can't see anything but I can feel this slickness on the paper and its a little thick so I rinse it out immediately. It's gotta be bacteria of some sort from rinsing my paper.

Yep, I think that's a bacterial matt forming. Pretty sure it's not a slime mould, you'd know if it were!

Einion

 

[QuietiManes]

It's gotta be bacteria of some sort from rinsing my paper.

More likely your breath and fingers. Humans are bacteria hosts and factories. Even the really sanitary ones. Plus it just floats around in the air, like mold. You can't get away from it.

*starts twitching and wiping imaginary filth from his shirt*

It's eVerYWHERE MAAANNNNN!!!! AAAaaaahhHHGGGHHhhHhh!!!one one.

 

[Alowan]

Interesting that it made so much difference. I use a quick spray of kitchen surface cleaner in the water usually and it does help, but I don't get as long as six months unless I was careful to store the palette in the fridge when it wasn't in use.

Just to check, when you say soap do you mean dishwashing liquid or something else?



Wouldn't you really have to boil it for a few minutes to make a significant difference? I'd imagine the palette paper is the least of the problems anyway, especially if you have a bleached one. It's not going to be sterile of course, but not teeming with bacterial either - boiled pulp, bleach, hot rollers for pressing. Plus it has to be food-safe, so presumably there are some standard they have to adhere to in terms of how clean the stuff is.


Yep, I think that's a bacterial matt forming. Pretty sure it's not a slime mould, you'd know if it were!

Einion

When you boil water it has already been a such a high temperature that it has killed the bacteria (if you boil for 1 min). Health regulations always says 5 minutes before drinking it, but it has actually reached full potential when it boils. (If i remember correctly it is >80 degrees that are the effective temperature - but didn't use much effort to remember those values when I was learning infectious disease since it doesn't apply much for clinical work)


Won't adding soap etc. to the water give problems with the paints?

 

[Egrimm van Horstmann]

@Einion: Yes, it was dishwashing liquid. I have the felt in multiple layers and put a line of the liquid (it's rather of gel consistency) between each layer.
The whole thing is then submerged into water.
I think, I will clean the felt soon, because the surface starts to feel a bit slimey. But there's no mould to be found anywhere.

@Alowan: Adding soap does not give problems to the paints at all. Quite to the contrary. It breaks the surface tension and makes the paint flow better.
That's what Flow Enhancers do.

 

[Einion]

When you boil water it has already been a such a high temperature that it has killed the bacteria (if you boil for 1 min). Health regulations always says 5 minutes before drinking it, but it has actually reached full potential when it boils.

Pretty sure that's not right. I think the basic thing is that the bacteria killed by heat aren't all killed instantly at any given temperature, but there are spores to worry about as well...

Anyway, I think the clear proof that you don't get max anti-bacterial action immediately is shown by hospital autoclaves, where a few minutes at 132°C is required for clinical sterility. At lower temperature settings the time used is half an hour or more.

Won't adding soap etc. to the water give problems with the paints?

You can add soap/detergent directly to paint without too much trouble, just as long as you don't add too much. A few acrylic painters use common dish soaps as a flow-release agent, instead of one of the specific products for this purpose (which often have much the same thing as the primary active ingredient).

Einion

 

[Alowan]

You are right that most spores aren't killed by boiling, disinfecting etc. - and it is almost impossible to kill them at home for "hobby use". Fortunately only a small part of bacteria can become spores. You are also right that bacteria die at different temperatures, but most dies after 90 degrees celcius. While it is not the same as an autoclave which with removes bacteria so there is a maximum of 1^-100 bacteria on the item at the lowest settings it is still the best way to kill bacteria. It is even the go to suggestion when water is contaminated with bacteria etc.

Boiling for 1 minute or 5 minutes makes no difference since if there is spores they will survive anyway. And for removing bacteria for use in a wet palette I think this is the best we can do - since we can't burn our water or autoclave it . But the bacteria that dies from boiling are gone after 1 minute.


An alternative (which might be a bit extreme) would be to use a medical filter that filters the bacteria from the water (I have a 20mL one at home - but it would take a long time to filter the water for the palette).


EDIT: you will also always have your natural flora of bacteria on your fingers and skin which will get into the water..

 

[Einion]

You are right that most spores aren't killed by boiling, disinfecting etc. - and it is almost impossible to kill them at home for "hobby use".

Just talking about the theory side of things more than the actual application here.

Boiling for 1 minute or 5 minutes makes no difference since if there is spores they will survive anyway.

The latter part is certainly true, but it sure does make a difference if you boil for more time - there's a reason for the advice given for sterilisation for homemade preserves. No point in debating it if you're sure you're right but I've seen firsthand what happens if you're complacent about it. Never happens when take the extra time.

Einion

 

[Johnniez]

I tried to use parchment paper but not that great of a result.

I see mentioned different types of parchment and how one side is different than the other.
One side absorbs moisture more than the other..

How do you know which side is which.??

tnx
Johnnie

 

[Ritual]

How do you know which side is which.??

By testing?

 

[Demihuman]

Hmm I use Reynolds "genuine parchment paper" and I can't tell a difference between sides. I also used just a wet paper towel for a long time and that worked pretty good too although you go through the paint faster.

 

[ced1106]

Johnnie, post a pic of your wet palette. I'm surprised others are having problems with it. The usual culprit is not enough water. Remember to put a penny in the water to keep away the mold.

I'm just using this cheap Kirkland parchment paper from CostCo. I think I usually have it curved side up to keep any paints from getting into the water.

Here's a pic of my wet palette, from a WIP I was doing: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1930149/sam-and-max

 

[Johnniez]

Hi all and thanks for the replies.

i use a Masterson stay wet the big one and have it set up identical to Jerry Yarnell, exactly. Tried it two ways. His setup using the sponge then perchment paper then the folded paper towels along the edges where he puts his paints, the other way is using the sponge and a piece of glass that fits pretty exact to the size of pallet then putting th paper towels a long the sides where the paint sits..
The glass was nice for mixing .. No lumping up of the paper sort of.

Only reason I have asked which side is UP is I have read others mentioning that one side is better than the other ,but NO ONE that I have asked has been able to answer.

So I guess it is a mystery.. I mystery of which I 'will' find the answer.

Thanks all
Johnnie

 

[RuneBrush]

Hi all and thanks for the replies.

i use a Masterson stay wet the big one and have it set up identical to Jerry Yarnell, exactly. Tried it two ways. His setup using the sponge then perchment paper then the folded paper towels along the edges where he puts his paints, the other way is using the sponge and a piece of glass that fits pretty exact to the size of pallet then putting th paper towels a long the sides where the paint sits..
The glass was nice for mixing .. No lumping up of the paper sort of.

Only reason I have asked which side is UP is I have read others mentioning that one side is better than the other ,but NO ONE that I have asked has been able to answer.

So I guess it is a mystery.. I mystery of which I 'will' find the answer.

Thanks all
Johnnie

I've been playing with mine over the past week or so. Personally I think that all baking parchment, baking sheet, greaseproof paper is slightly different. Ritual has it right in that you really need to cut some pieces and try them both ways up to see how they work. Some let more water through the paper, some less. I've had one that let no water through, but did keep things cool due to the water underneath, others mean you need to cut a lot less when thinning. Pretty much like a lot in this hobby, a bit of experimentation to see what works for you

 

[Jbickley00]

i simply use the masterson paper, and i add some dishsoap under the sponge, and i am mold free and my paint lasts weeks, or even months. I used to use parchment paper, but one i sorted out that you can clean and re-use the masterson paper, i change my pallet paper like once a month.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

Never, ever did I think wet pallets could be this complicated.
I've heard that homemade ones work the best. Some of the hobby shop kits use strange materials.

I use these Mr Clean reusable cloth towel things with parchment paper. Never heard of boiling or anything strange like that. Place them in a Tupperware container. But leave the container upside down so you don't have to reach inside it. When I place the parchment paper down I press it flat and try to get rid of bubbles , then I flip it over and use that side. Simple. No mess. I water my average paint down to a six to one ratio and don't have any problems.

 

[paul222]

1)Throw the useless blister foam pad in the garbage
2) Cut a square of T-shirt material or a thin sponge to size and use that instead
3) Profit​