When to Green Stuff

[Kodakai]

I've noticed a lot of people paint the various parts of a mini before gluing them together. This makes sense to me as it's far easier to get into spaces that may otherwise be hard to reach.

What i'm struggling with however is how you go about filling any gaps left after the assembly stage? When I look at some of these Golden Demon winners I can't make out any joins, which is the way it should be. I can't find any tutorials showing how this is achieved.

My question to you all is how do you do it?

When do you glue the parts together, when do you fill, and when do you paint?

Any tips for getting undetectable results?

 

[boubi]

I personally do the following. Maybe not the best, but at least working for me...
I paint most of the parts separately when I see that cannot access, I pin and adjust the miniature if necessary before starting paint job also. When paint is finished, I delicately assemble all the parts together using (most of the time) super glue... Don't use super glue activator as it might destroy completely your paint job. Then I use liquid green stuff with a small brush 00 or even 000 to push the green stuff into the recesses, you need 2 / 3 layers but the green stuff dries quickly, the last layer you need to be careful not to put too much, you cannot send it obvisously and removing the excess when dry can be a disaster. So more layers and check in between is better... Then I paint back the joint and adjust the color transition like the other parts surrounding it... at the end it is a really small spot which is not obvious in the paint job even if slight color differences occur. I tried also with normal green stuff but bit more risk as you need to use a hard tool to push it into the recesses and you might slip in scratch REALLY important surfaces which will becomes in that case really obvious, and in an instant destroy hours of paint job!

Hope that will help you... I am sure other people will bring their way of doing and you can pick up the one you prefer! Thank you CMON!

 

[QuietiManes]

Well, in short, painting beforehand is always going to be visible. Less so if the joint lines up with an armour panel edge or something but still visible upon closer inspection. Golden Demon winners don't do it...or they spend a large amount of time painting over it after they glue it and fill it as well. Assuming you can't cover it up with a cape or a shoulder pad or something.

You can paint most of it and just paint around the joints after it's assembled and filled, but you'd have to paint to a stopping point, a molded line in the model type of thing.

Also, to make it less apparent, you can coat one side of the joint in oil or lube, pin it to the other side and fill it with greenstuff at the same time, then smooth it and shape it, then remove the oily side while it cures. Then paint it all up and glue. Leaves you with no gap at least.

 

[Kodakai]

Also, to make it less apparent, you can coat one side of the joint in oil or lube, pin it to the other side and fill it with greenstuff at the same time, then smooth it and shape it, then remove the oily side while it cures. Then paint it all up and glue. Leaves you with no gap at least.

I considered this but i was wondering how practical it would be. Have you tried it? My concern would be leaving any oily residue on the mini that may later affect the paint.

Boubi - Your suggestion seems like it would work well for smaller less complex models where you're just attaching an arm. I have a few larger ones where the gaps are much more pronounced and i don't think liquid Green Stuff would be appropriate.

I be interested to know if there's any tutorials that touch on this. Most i've seen either deal with preparation or painting, but never this aspect.

Does anyone else have any different techniques they'd like to share?

 

[SkelettetS]

my best advice is to glue and prepp as much as possible before painting, as its way easier. gluing after painting can be a real pain if not prepared carefully, especially when it comes to minis without natural joints like armourplates etc.

 

[boubi]

Boubi - Your suggestion seems like it would work well for smaller less complex models where you're just attaching an arm. I have a few larger ones where the gaps are much more pronounced and i don't think liquid Green Stuff would be appropriate.

I think you need to find something in between, you try to mould your bigger gaps on one of the parts using greenstuff and pre-assembly method as descrived, then you paint when dry then assemble and use liquid greenstuff or something else to fill the remaining small gaps. I believe if what I would do if there are big gaps...

 

[Bailey03]

I've heard about using oil or lube (actually petroleum jelly) on one side of a joint. The person I talked to made a point that you would have to thoroughly clean the part afterwards and I think they mentioned using a degreaser or something like that. In my opinion this seems like the most effective way to fix large gaps, but it sounds like a lot of work in the preparation stages. I have a few upcoming projects where I'm considering giving this a try.

When I'm working on larger scale models (75 or 90mm or more) I always try to assemble as much as I can. For parts that I have to paint separately, I don't usually paint up to the joint. I leave a small area paint free so when I apply green stuff I don't have to worry about scratching up a finished paint job. As boubi said, liquid green stuff is great for small gaps.

One tip I will share is to be careful with superglue around painted parts. If you use a good deal of glue the fumes can leave a white chalky residue on the painted pieces ruining your hard work. I've started placing my models in front of a fan whenever I'm gluing something that is partially painted while the glue drys. It may not be a perfect solution, but I haven't had any problems since I started doing it.

 

[Einion]

First tip I'd give is at some point down the line you get something other than Green Stuff (Kneadatite) to do this kind of filling, one of the epoxies that's more like clay work better for this overall - they're easier to smooth out to an invisible fade, have less of that whole stickiness issue, easier to mix in cold weather and other advantages. Kneadatite is a fine sculpting compound once you get the hang of it but it's not ideally suited to filling despite how widespread its use is for this.

I've noticed a lot of people paint the various parts of a mini before gluing them together. This makes sense to me as it's far easier to get into spaces that may otherwise be hard to reach.

:good:

What i'm struggling with however is how you go about filling any gaps left after the assembly stage?

This is a good way of phrasing the question because I think it makes it easier to see the solution - striving to make sure there aren't any gaps after assembly.

This isn't always possible but it should be the goal. You have to do dry runs before final glue up, assess what's needed and tackle them (as covered in the above tips on pre-filling), then assemble as much as feasible to still allow easy access during painting. Notice I say easy access, not access full stop - plenty of times you can get a paintbrush to something but an arm or weapon prevents you being able to paint it properly; this is something you have to try to foresee as well, which more experience helps a lot with.

P.S. If you don't have any already I'd recommend against getting Liquid Greenstuff which is overpriced junk.

I've heard about using oil or lube (actually petroleum jelly) on one side of a joint. The person I talked to made a point that you would have to thoroughly clean the part afterwards and I think they mentioned using a degreaser or something like that. In my opinion this seems like the most effective way to fix large gaps, but it sounds like a lot of work in the preparation stages. I have a few upcoming projects where I'm considering giving this a try.

Lubricating mating surfaces to allow separation is a fine principle but frankly I can't figure out why people insist on trying to skate uphill by using oil or petroleum jelly when there are alternatives that require far less effort in the long term. So, alternatives? Talc, dishwashing liquid. There are other things that fit the bill as well but these two will do the job 99% of the time and most everyone will have one or both in the house so no need to over-complicate things.

Einion

 

[Kodakai]

One tip I will share is to be careful with superglue around painted parts. If you use a good deal of glue the fumes can leave a white chalky residue on the painted pieces ruining your hard work. I've started placing my models in front of a fan whenever I'm gluing something that is partially painted while the glue drys. It may not be a perfect solution, but I haven't had any problems since I started doing it.

Great tip, not something i'd heard before but worth knowing. I imagine it would be very frustrating to lose work like this.

First tip I'd give is at some point down the line you get something other than Green Stuff (Kneadatite) to do this kind of filling, one of the epoxies that's more like clay work better for this overall - they're easier to smooth out to an invisible fade, have less of that whole stickiness issue, easier to mix in cold weather and other advantages. Kneadatite is a fine sculpting compound once you get the hang of it but it's not ideally suited to filling despite how widespread its use is for this.

I have some Milliput, is this the kind of thing you meant? It's about a year old though, do you know if it has a shelf life? I've also heard of people using Magic Sculpt, do you know if this is any good?

If you don't have any already I'd recommend against getting Liquid Greenstuff which is overpriced junk.

Have you had a bad experience with Liquid Greenstuff? Most of the reviews i've read online have been largely positive saying how good it is. I can understand the price criticism as GW's hobby supplies are usually a fair bit more expensive. If not Liquid Greenstuff do you have an alternative you could suggest?

Lubricating mating surfaces to allow separation is a fine principle but frankly I can't figure out why people insist on trying to skate uphill by using oil or petroleum jelly when there are alternatives that require far less effort in the long term. So, alternatives? Talc, dishwashing liquid. There are other things that fit the bill as well but these two will do the job 99% of the time and most everyone will have one or both in the house so no need to over-complicate things.

Great idea, and such a simple solution. I'll see if i can get hold of some talc first as it seems the most mess free solution.

 

[KruleBear]

I'd be interested to hear about the epoxy clay brands. I have Gauth the dragon that I epoxied together (poorly) several years ago that I need to fill gaps on. Never filled seems on something with this much detail.

 

[QuietiManes]

I considered this but i was wondering how practical it would be. Have you tried it? My concern would be leaving any oily residue on the mini that may later affect the paint.

I've done it a few times. You'll need to clean any residue very well. Anything that cuts whatever you use for lube, I generally use water (which works well if you remove it in seconds and requires no cleaning) or KY (if it'll be longer and dissolves in water but I also use hand or dish soap). I guess dish soap as lube is a good idea, I've never thought to try it.

I was looking at the Miliput site a day or two ago, so it's fresh in my memory, the shelf life is "2 years in proper conditions". If the "outer" bits are discoloured and/or hard, it's past its prime. But I've used the "inner" portions with good results on a couple tubes, so if it's not too far gone you might be able to get some use out of it still.

 

[Einion]

I have some Milliput, is this the kind of thing you meant? It's about a year old though, do you know if it has a shelf life? I've also heard of people using Magic Sculpt, do you know if this is any good?

Milliput isn't my ideal but it's certainly one of the clay-like putties (actually it might be the most like clay in consistency/feel). It does definitely have a shelf life and regrettably quite a bit of it might have passed before you buy it. Once it has started to form a stiff skin on one or both of the rolls it is past its fresh state. You can slow this down by storing them, individually bagged, in the fridge.

MagicSculp is one of the best of the alternatives (see comments at bottom), along with Apoxie Sculpt or Apoxie Clay from Aves.

Have you had a bad experience with Liquid Greenstuff? Most of the reviews i've read online have been largely positive saying how good it is. I can understand the price criticism as GW's hobby supplies are usually a fair bit more expensive.

Without meaning to be unfair a lot of the people who speak positively about it haven't used any alternatives so they really don't have much basis for comparison. There are a few prior threads here that talk about it that would be worth hunting down.

If not Liquid Greenstuff do you have an alternative you could suggest?

Watered-down epoxy putty would be one, this being one of the advantages of having some of this type on hand. But you don't really have to water it down for most filling tasks since they're so soft when fleshly mixed and can easily be mooshed into place.

In terms of a more direct like-for-like replacement, there are numerous filler-based mediums for acrylics that are very similar in principle but far far cheaper, which wouldn't be hard given they come in containers that might be 20 times larger. But in the past when I wanted to fill a join using a paintbrush I'd often make my own on the pallette, using talc or marble dust as the filler.

I'd be interested to hear about the epoxy clay brands. I have Gauth the dragon that I epoxied together (poorly) several years ago that I need to fill gaps on. Never filled seems on something with this much detail.

Although it's no longer my favourite sculpting material I still think MagicSculp may be the best starter choice, you could hunt up some of my prior posts on it for details but just quickly I think it's probably the easiest to learn how to use, generally the cheapest and has an amazing shelf life (possibly indefinite with the current formulation).

Einion

 

[KruleBear]

Although it's no longer my favourite sculpting material I still think MagicSculp may be the best starter choice, you could hunt up some of my prior posts on it for details but just quickly I think it's probably the easiest to learn how to use, generally the cheapest and has an amazing shelf life (possibly indefinite with the current formulation).

Einion

Thanks Einion. I'll look up your other threads. I have been too cheap to buy green stuff and from what I had read about milliput it did not seem like a good choice for a noobie like me. I'll probably mail order some magiSculp--indefinite shelf life is right up my alley

Edit--Magic Sculpt ordered ( as well as some kneadatite).

 

[Kodakai]

Thanks for the recommendation Einion, i also ordered some Magic Sculp at the weekend. Gonna give it a try and see if it can model it with a dry fit and some talc.

I'm pleased to say as a result of the discussions on here i have a lot of new ideas to try and don't feel so frustrated about the whole thing.

I'll be sure to post my findings after giving it a try.

 

[MAXXxxx]

I considered this but i was wondering how practical it would be. Have you tried it? My concern would be leaving any oily residue on the mini that may later affect the paint.

it's quite common with larger kits (1/6 anime kits for example). So yes, it would work, but adds a lot of time to the preparation phase (as full GS curing must be waited, as it shrinks a bit).