BloodFather's Axis of Chaos

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
for the rivets: first darkening the surrounding area works for making them stand out (even if it's only a pinwash), but if you use black for that, then I wouldn't go to pure white for the rivets. First do a midtone only. if it still doesn't stand out, then a mix of midtone+white. But I thing pure white would be too much.


So far the colors are blue and an orangeish color(gold) that's used. As they make a good complementer pair, it's hard to add another color to it.
Possibilities are (based on color wheel):
- black, it's neutral so it doesn't disturb the other color too much
- greenish yellow (like VGC DesertSand), but then you'd need a bit of purple to offset it (like using it in the shades of the gold AND the blue, just a thin glaze, so it looks blue, but feels purpleish)
- if you want green, then you'd need some red somewhere, this could be a blood effect for example, whether it should be a darker one (as the blue based on the shield is light enough) or a really light one is beyond me. Would have to pick one, try it to see if it works, then decide.
 

Canny

Active member
Good call Max darken the surroundings to make the highlight brighter.
looking better each time I check in :)
 
Thanks all. Since the rivets in question are on the side of the symbol plunged in highlight, I think it's best if I start the rivets at the midtone and work it to pure white. Any rivets that are in shadow will get a pin wash in purple before spot highlighting with midtone, as you describe.

I started the gold over-again-on the shield. Wasn't happy with it as I felt there was too much of the top highlight and the blends were not as smooth as I am capable of. I hope I don't regret this.

The he cape color I am referring to is actually a blue green. It's temple guard blue mixed with sotek green, I believe. So it's teal. Ish. From seeing a similar paint job (Carlos B) I think this actually works without having to change much. Also be aware that there are tassels on the shield and helmet that could be any color. I think, though, that the important thing is that the cape is very neutral. I don't want to distracting from the freehand I have planned. I can downplay the teal by making it unsaturated as can be.
 

chaos spawn

Member
treat each rivet as separate object. Means: The appearance of the rivets is independent of their position on the shield. They all should look alike. Darklining around them, brown shadow bright highlight.
 
I am going to do my worst of course, but I am sort of coming to terms with the facts that the gold accents on this particular model-not the shield though-just don't paint well. I know it sounds garbage, but I CAN execute gold NMM. My Sigvald at least somewhat confirms this, and ive spent the last two weeks practicing recipes on random bitz with good results. I found one example of decent NMM on the same mini (previous page, the one with the fire axe OSL) and I believe that I have met this standard. Pics to follow once I clean it up. Another thing is contributing to my inability to make it look smooth and, well, sell the effect; this mini is just worn out and tired. I've stripped it too many times. Rivets have been worn down and edges have outright disappeared. So I'm going to move on, accepting a less than perftec ( winks at Zab) result. Two weeks I've been trying to convince myself that I am NMM capable, rather than working on completing this guy.

Coming soon: Freehand cracks. I've tested the effect out on a base awhile back. It came out pretty good and will help me sell the frozen look I want. I also have some icicle juice so I can find places for this stuff to hang off if this shield, axe, or armor. But first I'm gonna clean up the mess I made with the gold and re blend much of the blue NMM, adding pure white HLs.
Still not sure what to do with the cape. It's painted a deep intense purple right now but I'd like to change this to a teal by mixing syrabite green and imperial guard blue. That's like a baby blue and a pastel green. I'll desaturate by adding a matt medium. Does anyone have any idea how I would shade this? I'll add Ivory to HL, not sure a spot of black is the answer for shading though. Mix dark blue and dark green and add progressive amounts of this??? Also not sure that teal is even the answer either, but it's close to the baby blue seen all over the mini, thus it won't draw eyes away from the main event-the armor. The tassels hanging from helmet and shield will be painted the complimentary color of teal....which is....a bronzey color, mayhaps burnt orange. This won't look good next to the gold though I appreciate any advice on any subject.
 

Zab

New member
Right on! Your focus is admirable, but sometimes you just have to tuck in and paint minis rather than just tests and feedback. They won't all be great, but you'll learn a ton more on the journey as you complete them ;)
 

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
but sometimes you just have to tuck in and paint minis rather than just tests and feedback. They won't all be great, but you'll learn a ton more on the journey as you complete them ;)
this. Also you won't go nuts because of the feeling that you have no progress.
I have a friend, who doesn't paint because it wouldn't look like the quality of the official paintjobs. Of course because of this he never practices (since 2004 or so), so he can't even do a basecoat. He simply never finished( well actually started) anything and no progress was ever made.

I'll desaturate by adding a matt medium.
well, actually matt medium won't desaturate the color, it'll just make it matt. Grey, Black and white does that.

And based on the pic above (where you hold the 2 pots of paint), I don't advise the teal color. It makes it look almost like the same as the armor.
What I'd suggest is
- either black (with warm, brownish highlights)
- or a warm-white (start with a desaturated, pastelly orange, like the metal and go until white). This way you have a contrast between the armor's blue and the cape AND because of the pastely tone you have a contrast between that and the bronze-metal (saturated, desaturated contrast). Ohh and by coincidence you have a warm-cold contrast too. Hmm, the more I think about it the more the warm-white I'd go with.

I'm thinking about something like the cape of Meliador here:
http://underthemountainblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lima02.jpg
(or the banner here: http://underthemountainblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lima02.jpg)

The funny thing is that they are mindblowingly simple(based on meliador tutorial from cry-havoc11):
- Elven Flesh base
- shaded with cca. Bleached Bone (original color has more yellow in it, but it's about ok)
- highlighted with white
- for more contrast shaded more with cca. GraveyardEarth (original color is a bit darker)

and that's it. Basically 3.5 steps.
 

ten ball

Active member
Right on! Your focus is admirable, but sometimes you just have to tuck in and paint minis rather than just tests and feedback. They won't all be great, but you'll learn a ton more on the journey as you complete them ;)

This :)
.........
 
this. Also you won't go nuts because of the feeling that you have no progress.
I have a friend, who doesn't paint because it wouldn't look like the quality of the official paintjobs. Of course because of this he never practices (since 2004 or so), so he can't even do a basecoat. He simply never finished( well actually started) anything and no progress was ever made.

Not sure why, but this is hilarious to me. I picture some guy....approaches his painting table. Picks up brush. Looks at "official" paint job. Drops brush exits room. Perpetually since 2004.


well, actually matt medium won't desaturate the color, it'll just make it matt. Grey, Black and white does that.

Matt medium IS used to desaturate. It can desaturate the pigment in a paint without overly thinning it. "If you thin a paint a lot with water, sometimes the pigment will start falling out of suspension or get grainy. So if you want to make a paint more transluscent for glazes or washes and such, you can add medium with or instead of water." -some guy on the internet.

But I also know this from personal experience. Of course, adding white or black is the commonly appreciated way of desaturating. But add a drop of medium into your undiluted paint and you'll see what I mean.



And based on the pic above (where you hold the 2 pots of paint), I don't advise the teal color. It makes it look almost like the same as the armor.
What I'd suggest is
- either black (with warm, brownish highlights)
- or a warm-white (start with a desaturated, pastelly orange, like the metal and go until white). This way you have a contrast between the armor's blue and the cape AND because of the pastely tone you have a contrast between that and the bronze-metal (saturated, desaturated contrast). Ohh and by coincidence you have a warm-cold contrast too. Hmm, the more I think about it the more the warm-white I'd go with.

I'm thinking about something like the cape of Meliador here:
http://underthemountainblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lima02.jpg
(or the banner here: http://underthemountainblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lima02.jpg)

The funny thing is that they are mindblowingly simple(based on meliador tutorial from cry-havoc11):
- Elven Flesh base
- shaded with cca. Bleached Bone (original color has more yellow in it, but it's about ok)
- highlighted with white
- for more contrast shaded more with cca. GraveyardEarth (original color is a bit darker)

and that's it. Basically 3.5 steps.

As always I appreciate your expertise. TBH, I've never messed around with white cloth. I am sure it ain't no thing, but I am a rookie in that regard....interesting that I've painted this long and never been exposed to white like this. Anyway, I have the following paints on hand that may help:

Ceramite white (pure)
VGC Bonewhite (apparently the same as bleached bone)
VMC Ivory (white with yellow tint)
Kommando Khaki (light brown white, a little darker than bleached bone)
Graveyard Earth (A heavier brown white)

So perhaps Ivory would be my elven flesh base? Still not committed to white, but I like the idea. Keep in mind, though, that I will have a snowy base. I actually wanted to put snow chunks on the cloak, on his boots, etc. But I suppose I could easily put some mud on the hem instead.

Again, I am shamelessly copying Carlos B. See 2 pages previous for his frozen version. He paints his cloak a lighjt blue but glazes a transluscent green on the top of portions. While I dont like his blue with sloppy green look, it made me appreciate the teal for being close to the base colors without matching exactly.

But the variety of ways to create contrast DOES make me want to go with white. BTW-Your links gave me a 403-Forbidden error. Do you have alternatives?

Thanks!!!!!
 

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
ohh, ok, so you want it to make more transparent without loosing the binding agent to better controll it.



hmm, maybe this one works: http://underthemountainblog.com/athenaeum/aarklash-archive/factions/lions-of-alahan/
(basically I mean the yellowish parts of the alahan paint-scheme from rackham.)

hmm, snowy base, that's not the best for white then especially if you wanted snow on the cloak too. (if not, then it could be mitigated with dirt/mud/blood/whatever on the bottom of it to separate it from the snow.

when I look at Carlo.B's mini, it looks like he avoided the too-same color problem with using a darkgreen/turqoise color and he mostly shaded it towards black, a bit like velvet. So that could help. But in that case you'd need some darker turqoise colors (from GW's current range the base color could be... incubi darkness(base) or sotek green(layer)?)

Then you could keep the white for another mini for another time. Also base would be Khaki/BBone (depending on if you want something more natural or more yellow), highlighted with Ivory then white, shaded with graveyard earth.
(The white cloth here was started from graveyard earth, then through BBone and white: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vOLi0nRocQGw2-o6Nq91HNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink )
 
in regards to using the medium, I was just trying to illustrate how matt can be used in order to support that it can be used to desaturate. Basically, my understanding is that Matt medium is like paint without the pigment. So to add it to a normal paint will reduce the saturation of the pigment. So it can be used in this regard, or it can be used to make an ink or wash when normally that kind of dilution would separate a normal pigment from its binder. We all have made a glaze or a wash, only to notice that we have used too much water and the pigment has separated from the water instead of being spread evenly throughout. Lastly, it can be used to make colors more flat, obviously. I make the distinction because desaturated doesn't necessarily mean more transparent, but transparency does imply desaturation.

Anyway, now that the academics are out of the way...now I REALLY don't know what color to make the cloak. :) I was more and more sold on trying white, but I am afraid that it won't work with the snow base.

However, I LIKE where you are going with the dark green blues. I have both incubi and sotek. Perhaps I could base in sotek and shade with incubi? Or base with a sotek incubi mix and shade with incubi and black?

Also, is this too much cold on the mini overall? The only warm is the gold so far. But then again, it IS a frozen mini.

 

Demihuman

Active member
This :)
.........

Yeah +1 on finishing minis.

I committed to post a mini a month to my gallery last year. And while I have some less then amazing PJ's I have improved my scores a whole point. Still have 3.5 months to go hoping to see a "9" by September...

Sometimes when I get super frustrated on a PJ I get onto ebay late at night... and buy one or two more of the same minis. Very cathartic :)
 
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Actuall Mr Zab, that is helpful to me. I'm already using the whites and baby blue of the first blonde. Other than that I see some purple, which is a warm red purple as opposed to my current cold blue purple. Then I see some Sotek green, which leads me to believe that Maxxxxxxxxx was onto something with the sotek incubi mix. Thanks for helping my eyes "taste" the colors Zab.

Demi, a mini a month MAY be workable for me, so long as I don't get snagged like I have on this mini. My wife is upset because I keep spending $$ in the hobby and I haven't completed anything in months. I have 3 minis that are all ALMOST complete. If you follow this WIP you've seen them all. Can't wait to make a gallery submission. I'd be happy with a sub 6.

However, if I am happy with this guy when he is done, it may take me longer. I thought about making a dog sled out if balsa wood-if I could make it significantly Chaosy. And have a team of chaos hounds pulling it. But this may be a tad ambitious for now.
 
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Canny

Active member
Hell I like that colour scheme. Frozen ay. I feel a eldar seer in that colour would be cool!
 
Did you just free hand that shield? That looks really cool.

Man, do you really think so? I think it looks good in places. Better on the bottom than the top because the glaze sticks out more. But as long as it looks like cracks... Thanks.

Note: Gold need highlighted. Saved for last.
 
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Humanitarian

New member
I think the shield looks cool, too.

Also, FWIW, matt medium will desaturate paints slightly. Matting agents are essentially a type of pigment that are intended to disrupt your dry film surface, while remaining essentially clear -- but they aren't, and their internal reflections also effectively slightly desaturate a pigment.

Compared to tinting (adding white), toning (adding gray), or shading (adding black) the effect of matting agent is minimal. Heck, compared to metamerism from changing a light source, the effect of matting agent is usually minimal.

I also agree on finishing minis. Right now I'm plowing through Rivet Wars (with my maybe 2 hours a week), so I'm focusing on getting them done so I can play. If your like everyone else I know, though, you will acquire minis generally faster than you complete them, so don't sweat it trying to make everything perfect. You can more easily see progress as well.
 
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