Relic Knight - the black sheep CMON KS

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Hydraphobe

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I write today not to discuss the delays, which have been many,but instead I want to address the appalling communication by CMON team. Information has been few and far between and since Soda pop took over it has improved. However, even now it suffers from CMON taking up to 5 days to copy and paste a single message sent to them from Soda pop. Not once have the 3,459 backers been privy to the reason(s) the project has fallen so ridiculously behind schedule. The project, if delivered in the near future will be nigh on 2 years since the projects successful funding and nearly a whole year late from its initial estimated delivery date. Throughout that time, we the backers, have been given few updates or progress reports and it is thus very hard to believe the project is 100% completed even at this time . There are many items that have not been shared with backers, and most of the sharing has been done through Soda pop's own forums (I cannot blame them as it seems the only reliable way to get information to backers/players).


Even now with shipping supposedly happening, we have had no official word from CMON other then to request that we confirm our shipping addresses. With Pre orders being taken by many we stores for a July release, it is insulting to think that backers have not been given firm shipping dates. Products were "air-freighted" from the Chinese production facilities, now that shouldn't take to long, but hey, what is it to write a quick "hey it's here and we have started shoving it in boxes for you all." Update with I don't know a few photos of the final packaging etc.


Now, I understand that the break between Soda pop and CMON May have complicated things, but hell I don't blame Soda Pop for the bad blood towards the Relic Knight product, their very own game, it has all been the doing of CMON (I'd love to hear from CMON if this isn't true) in fact I'm surprised there has not been a legal shot fired.
So in part CMON get off your back sides and give the backers, who gave you just a tad under a million US dollars (probably over that with pledge manger add ons), some information! transparency would have so much backlash. Speaking of which I was disappointed to see that these forums have been cleared of all such backlash, burying ones head in the sand is not a solution to the issue.


Now I know that this will most likely be locked or deleted so I'm going to post it up on a few forums/social media threads because it's important for those backers and future backers of CMON projects to be warned that this company is far from perfect, and would do very well to improve their communication skills vastly!


Greatly looking forward to my RK shipment and getting into the game? But it I for one will not be backing another KS campaign by CMON. Disappointed that it could have been a vastly different experience for this is not my first dealing with the issue. I just hope many others will not have to deal with this unprofessional behaviour.
 
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Ender_101

New member
I agree that an update from the CMoN team about the status of Relic Knights would be welcome and incredibly awesome. I understand that they have their con going on over this holiday weekend so most of the staff might be busy and an update right away might not be in the cards, but it would be nice to hear something about the status of the product and where we stand as we wait with baited breath. Like the poster above, I heard that the product was air freighted from China, but haven't heard the concrete details about what's going on it with it and the plans for shipping.

The original poster's frustration is understandable, communication has been the weakest aspect of the CMoN kickstarters I've been a part of.
 
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jamones

New member
I agree on this, I was reluctant at first to back this KS, but overtime it became a good deal. But the delivery time and comunication are a secondory matter right now, bear with me:

What about the quality of the miniatures?, nobody made a comment about how every update we receive with pictures are all like "this is just a sample photo taken with my iphone at the factory" and ALL the photos are low-res and looks like crap!!! WTF?? Even and old Iphone has a 5mpx camera so you could post high-res photos showing the details of the minis, unless they are crap like Sedition Wars minis and you are trying to hide it.

How come nobody realised this???
 
kendarus

kendarus

New member
@Jamones Part (not all) of that is on KickStarter... They down-sample images posted into updates if they are above some threshold. Check out the Soda Pop forums. I think they have some better images of the figures and packaging.
 
J

jamones

New member
@kendarus Well I checked their forum, searched for photos, read a couple of threads (and almost every 87 pages of the shipping thread), but nothing, just the same ~600x400px photos, in wich you can see some mould lines... I don't want to think waht other things you can see in a better picture... Also I backed other KS projects, KD for example, and they post almost professional shots of their WIPs, they are rezised in the KS page, but if you open individual photos you can see them in their original size, so there's no excuse for Soda Pop...

I don't want to sound like I'm a Soda Pop hater, otherwise I wouldn't backed this project, but since Sedition Wars crappy miniatures, I'm more concerned about the quality of the miniatures, rather than the shipping times.
 
MAXXxxx

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
jamones said:
I don't want to sound like I'm a Soda Pop hater, otherwise I wouldn't backed this project, but since Sedition Wars crappy miniatures, I'm more concerned about the quality of the miniatures, rather than the shipping times.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say, but they were started before/around the same time as Sedition Wars and at that time using the same restic was the plan afaik. Same as the current SDE minis.
So I don't even hope that it will be another material, maybe better casting quality (cleaner, less deformations), but I think they will be similar.

I make terrible photos, but the lq photos with a high-end new camera *do* suggest that they can be wonky. (like the faces of the doctrine - trio).

well, if everything goes as planned we'll know in a few weeks.
 
kendarus

kendarus

New member
@jamones: Definitely agree that KD does a good job of showing off their stuff! And there is no reason other kickstarters can't link the full pics.

Sorry the SP forums were a bust... I could swear I found some good pics on there somewhere... Off to see...
 
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Ender_101

New member
At least Soda Pop is talking to us about the product, right?

From that same thread from SPM_Deke:

"Kickstarter limits photo size to 640px wide, so in general we've kept pictures within that framework as well. It also keeps the file size small and quick to load. Since most the photos have been of complete units instead of single models the relative size of the models have be small than the width. I have some bigger pictures and will put them up tonight or tomorrow!"

Also, Mydnite from the forum was kind enough to load some pictures he took at a convention of a demo set of Relic Knights that had been speed painted after getting the starter boxes.

http://imgur.com/b6gNn4C

http://imgur.com/nSxkVfz

http://imgur.com/sOUABYb

The quality of these pictures isn't great, but at it helped put my mind at ease at least. The models look like about what I was expecting, the quality looks similar to the plastics I've seen from Privateer Press in the past.

And hopefully we'll have some pictures from Deke with better quality pictures of the models.

Now if we could only get CMoN to give us an update about when we should expect something at our doors I'd be much happier.
 
Mydnight

Mydnight

New member
Ender_101 said:
At least Soda Pop is talking to us about the product, right?

From that same thread from SPM_Deke:

"Kickstarter limits photo size to 640px wide, so in general we've kept pictures within that framework as well. It also keeps the file size small and quick to load. Since most the photos have been of complete units instead of single models the relative size of the models have be small than the width. I have some bigger pictures and will put them up tonight or tomorrow!"

Also, Mydnite from the forum was kind enough to load some pictures he took at a convention of a demo set of Relic Knights that had been speed painted after getting the starter boxes.

http://imgur.com/b6gNn4C

http://imgur.com/nSxkVfz

http://imgur.com/sOUABYb

The quality of these pictures isn't great, but at it helped put my mind at ease at least. The models look like about what I was expecting, the quality looks similar to the plastics I've seen from Privateer Press in the past.

And hopefully we'll have some pictures from Deke with better quality pictures of the models.

Now if we could only get CMoN to give us an update about when we should expect something at our doors I'd be much happier.
Click to expand...

I figured I'd post the rest of the ones I took.

Zineda
http://imgur.com/tqIJIZD

Noh Berserkers
http://imgur.com/aKdsGDP
http://imgur.com/ZxI6xGx

Render
http://imgur.com/7B2yPvu

Sword Sworn
http://imgur.com/OE1J5hQ

Moffet
http://imgur.com/vkDxyFU
http://imgur.com/JgTGB1D
 
Darkendlight

Darkendlight

New member
Not sure if it is worth pointing out that all the model/game development is SodaPop's responsibility. While it would seem that CMoN is responsible for production and shipping. This also assumption based on what I have read on various forums. I would all assume that there is some amount of legal and professional aspects that keep CMoN from saying why anything is late unless it comes from SP. So while I do believe that some blame can be laid at CMoN for this project I lay most of the blame on SP. It is their game and ultimately their responsibility.
 
Keats

Keats

New member
Darkendlight, you wrote-
"Not sure if it is worth pointing out that all the model/game development is SodaPop's responsibility. While it would seem that CMoN is responsible for production and shipping."

The game is developed, the models are developed, the product is produced and allegedly in hand at the CMoN warehouse..... so how are you claiming most of the blame is on SPM? Delays of the past maybe, but the current issue people are voicing is on the lack of update on shipping and what is going on.

The way I see it is this situation is a poop sandwich that the two companies have to share (until it hits retail and solely a SPM product), and has changed a lot of people's kickstarter habits, with people on both sides swearing off the other company. I backed both SDE forgotten king and Wrath of Kings, so I haven't withdrawn my support of either company, just adjusted my expectations for delivery etc...

For clarity, the complaint stems from the last comment on RK is from Feb 13 2014, and that was a direct quote from a SPM guy, I know the companies split but a little involvement would go a long way.

I also think that CMoN refusing to fling muck and blame their partners for the delay with Relic Knights was pretty classy of them (see wrath of kings comments for the shipment delay announcement). I am disappointed in the lack of updates on Relic Knights when they are chatty over at Wrath of Kings and the RK guys are expecting a shipping notification, an update, or another delay any second.

Hopefully some shipping update is revealed soon.

 
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E

Ender_101

New member
What baffles me is that Deke is waiting to hear from CMoN about the shipping details. I'd love to hear from the guy who is in charge of the Relic Knights communication with Soda Pop and just hear an explanation. I'm a reasonable person, I just want to know why they haven't been keeping the owners of the game up to date so they can tell us. And when there is an update from Soda Pop, why does it sometimes take so long to get the update on Kickstarter? Doesn't it bother anyone in the leadership positions?

I know they compartmentalize between the various games, so it shouldn't annoy me when I see a semi-regular update for Wrath of Kings, or that a new Kick Starter is launched what seems like every few months from CMoN, but how hard is it to send an email that says: "product in hand/en route/shipping to a door step near you"? Anything is better than silence at this point, just tell us.

Here's more pictures, I'm hoping the ones I don't think look great will benefit once painted (same plastic as Privateer Press I understand, and I'm usually happy with those plastics so we'll see).

http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2537&start=60
 
MAXXxxx

MAXXxxx

Well-known member
hmm, mixed feelings on those images.

- they are about what I expected (sadly)
- some are good (larger figures mostly, like noh)
- I know I'm spoilt because of KD minis' quality, but most human sized minis are missing details especially their faces... The way they look, they could've gone with no sculpted definition and just let us freehand them. Would make no real difference.
This *is* bad imho as it'll very likely put me off painting any of them. Also even like this they are good from KS (with all the extras), but buying a starterbox of minis in that quality in a shop would be impossible.

so for now it looks like we'll get:
- a super looking book, with good rules (based on one video I saw)
- a good looking battlemat (based on another video)
- lots of minis with varying quality (some good, most mediocre, some bad)
- LE-s changed to standards
- Poses and designs are not even the same as during the KS.
- a good, but not that stellar comic
- still no info on the plush candy n cola

The only one that bothers me is the mini-quality. Especially as I liked the Cerci most. Looks like I'll be hunting down some of the old metals on ebay in the future (for the bikers)


What baffles me is that Deke is waiting to hear from CMoN about the shipping details.
Click to expand...
Maybe he (and we)'ll hear about it when it starts happening.
Even though you are right. They could say "We have no info yet". That's also an info.

Also I can understand cmon's disinterest in RK a lot. It's like what I had in 2011 after I quit a job because they weren't paying. According to the contract I had to work for an extra 2 months(also unpayed) there. Guess how enthusiastic I was to do anything productive.
Same here. With SP buyout CMON won't really see profits (maybe as a distributor/reseller in the future, and probably the 'buyout' did get some extra here), but as producer(for now) they still have to eat up the costs of the delays, warehouses, shipping(+air to eu/row afaik?), etc now.
 
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Keats

Keats

New member
I hope the product shows detail better with paint (there are some painted pictures up on facebook, be the judge yourself) because for a years worth of delays for quality control, they don't look very detailed or quality controlled. It is going to take a lot of work from SPM to get Relic Knights where it should be after so many years of development, production, and delays and give the brand any chance of survival in my opinion. Glad I am only in this one for the limited, totally not at all in any way limited, edition SDE miniatures.
 
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Ender_101

New member
I can understand them not being enthusiastic due to the end of the publishing arrangement, but at the end of the day its CMoN's name on the kickstarter and they have a responsibility to keep at the very least the owners of the product in the loop. And its not like the silence wasn't the most depressing part of the arrangement long before they called it quits.

“As agreed with Soda Pop Miniatures, we will finish fulfilling all existing orders on these titles including those on the Relic Knights Kickstarter, and transfer full control and inventory to Soda Pop Miniatures in an orderly fashion in the coming weeks,” added Chern Ann Ng, Director at CoolMiniOrNot. “The team at CoolMiniOrNot has greatly enjoyed publishing these excellent titles. We wish Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division all the best on their future plans.”

This is from the Soda Pop website on the announcement of the end of the arrangement back in March (emphasis mine). Again, I'm not an unreasonable rabble rouser, I just want someone to pick up the phone/shoot an email to give us an update or at least explain why that's too hard.

Sometimes CMoN waits until just before a deadline to give us info, citing that they want to have 'all the information' to give us at once like with WoK's delay, but a lot of people would have been happier if they hadn't waited until what, a week before originally estimated fullfillment was set to begin? Or with how Relic Knights was expected to be finished with shipping back in December, and after months of silence we got the thanksgiving delay with and giving us previews they'd had for awhile? That was what caused SPM to take over communication as I recall.

I think most of us would be happier with getting information as it comes out as opposed to waiting until the eleventh hour and still hearing nothing.

Relic Knights is sort of the model for how a promising kickstarter can go off the rails, I'd think that CMoN would want to finally get that particular skeleton out of its closet and into the hands of SPM.
 
D

Digclaw

New member
MAXXxxx said:
nope, that would be the Robotech KS. I'd laugh at it, but I also backed that one out of nostalgy so it's painful.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Robotech is much more complicated than Relic Knights

Robotech is Licensed from a Licencee.

ND have to make the sculpt send it to Palladium, for approval, who then send it to Harmony Gold, for approval, who then send it on to the Japanese owners of Macross

If anybody in that chain doesn't like the sculpt, it goes back to ND who start the chain over

then you factor mold and casting issues and the process takes forever
 
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