Rules Question- bomb damage source, credit and retribution

[odinsgrandson]

So, if a bomb gets set off, and in a later turn, one of the trap counters kills a hero:

1- Does this count as the bomb's owner killing the hero, or is it like a trap or monster killing the hero?
2- Does the Amulet of Retribution or Spike's ability respond to this damage, or does it come from no source (ie- not from a hero)?
3- And if it kills a monster, does the hero responsible for the token get credit for the kill, or does no one?

 

[Kangataz]

Just my thought
1. Killed by trap= killed by environment, even if on the same tile. Cuz doesn't it state that a hero moving into the tile sets it off, so the order would be bomb first, then killing blow from trap, which means killed by environment.
2. I think since kill credit goes to the one who sets the bomb, if there is a defense roll, then spike/amulet of ret. should be in play
3. I could be wrong but I think the card 'Da bomb' says it only damages heroes.

 

[imbored]

I agree to Kangataz for 1 and 3, but for 2, Spike/the amulet of retribution should not be in play. On page 27, it is stated that "If an Enemy Hero enters a Space with one of these tokens, he suffers an attack like the original Bomb attack (though any Abilities or Rerolls don't apply to this attack)" so Spike/amulet's ability should not be activated, at least that would be how I would play.

 

[rrrrupp]

I agree to Kangataz for 1 and 3, but for 2, Spike/the amulet of retribution should not be in play. On page 27, it is stated that "If an Enemy Hero enters a Space with one of these tokens, he suffers an attack like the original Bomb attack (though any Abilities or Rerolls don't apply to this attack)" so Spike/amulet's ability should not be activated, at least that would be how I would play.

Disagree... It says abilities don't apply to this ATTACK. Says nothing about the defense.

 

[imbored]

The question was whether or not spike's/amulet's abilities were activated, and the rules say they don't apply, I never said anything about defense.

 

[Kangataz]

I re-read page 27 again on bombs. I agree with rrrrupp, in a sense that abilities and rerolls don't apply to the attack, this is probably due to the fact that it is going to make it difficult to incorporate these, as the attacking character is not going to always be clear. I agree defense rolls probably going to be rolled as normal and thus abilities from it as well

 

[Kangataz]

Funny enough we ran into this exact situation in tonight's game. I am curious to hear the official ruling to this specifically on retribution. Also what happens when the owner of the bomb is switched via resting. Does this mean the new owner gets hit by retribution?

 

[virtualonmars]

#1 .. Bomb owner killing the hero
#2 .. Who is Spike revenging to? the bomb? its a land mine on the ground that explodes (read: it dies). Spike or amulet doesnt deal damage/reflect damage to the bomb thrower when it comes to the land mines on the floor. He does/it does, however, revenge/retribution the first time the bomb throw it throws the bomb
#3.. Bomb cards read "when an enemy hero".... so bomb doesnt trigger on monsters

 

[odinsgrandson]

#1 .. Bomb owner killing the hero
#2 .. Who is Spike revenging to? the bomb? its a land mine on the ground that explodes (read: it dies). Spike or amulet doesnt deal damage/reflect damage to the bomb thrower when it comes to the land mines on the floor. He does/it does, however, revenge/retribution the first time the bomb throw it throws the bomb
#3.. Bomb cards read "when an enemy hero".... so bomb doesnt trigger on monsters

Answer #3 looks right, but I have a problem with the other two.

If a character gets credit for dealing damage to Spike, then why doesn't he take retribution damage? I could see it working like a non-character source of damage, but in that case, the death would also have to be non-character source of damage.

For example, if Nibbles throws the bomb out, will he heal if it kills a hero on a later turn? And if he does, then why doesn't he take retribution damage?

Or, are bombs things that don't grant anyone credit for a kill?

 

[virtualonmars]

Answer #3 looks right, but I have a problem with the other two.

If a character gets credit for dealing damage to Spike, then why doesn't he take retribution damage? I could see it working like a non-character source of damage, but in that case, the death would also have to be non-character source of damage.

For example, if Nibbles throws the bomb out, will he heal if it kills a hero on a later turn? And if he does, then why doesn't he take retribution damage?

Or, are bombs things that don't grant anyone credit for a kill?

Gotta think of it this way...
Lets say Nibbles threw the bomb, hits, and 4 land mines popped out. So Nibbles set the land mines, so he should get credit for them
with that being said, says in the bomb card that abilities and rerolls doesn't work ... so Nibbles abilities to regain health should not kick in
think the Land mines as its own individual characters with X attack dice and dies after attacking

 

[rrrrupp]

Gotta think of it this way...
Lets say Nibbles threw the bomb, hits, and 4 land mines popped out. So Nibbles set the land mines, so he should get credit for them
with that being said, says in the bomb card that abilities and rerolls doesn't work ... so Nibbles abilities to regain health should not kick in
think the Land mines as its own individual characters with X attack dice and dies after attacking

That is not what it says though. It says abilities and rerolls don't work for the ATTACK. We're talking about the defense roll. Unless otherwise noted from the devs, I'll be playing that Spike can cause wounds.

If you go by your theory, you also wouldn't get other defensive abilities that would make sense... like crits = 2 blocks and such.

 

[VileMcNasty]

It says "any abilties or rerolls don't apply to this attack". If the hero targeted was able to use abilities or rerolls it should have been worded: Any abilties or rerolls don't apply to this attack roll.

 

[Kangataz]

oh vile that is a different way to look at this, which means defending characters don't get re-rolls on this if going by your angle.....

 

[imbored]

Well, until there's an official ruling, I'm going to play like this:
Assume someone throws a bomb at Spike for 4 wounds, Spike defends with a shield and a crit and nothing else, dealing one damage back, bomb does 2 damage and creates it's minefield, on Spike's turn, Spike walks into one of the places bombs (placed guild token) and the bomb goes off, dealing 2 damage, Spike now has a chance to defend against 2 wounds that will be dealt to him due to stepping on the bomb with the exception that his ability and rerolls are nulled. I think the only thing I'm really confused about is when the rules say that a hero "suffers an attack like the original bomb attack" I wonder if they'd be talking about the 4 rolls, or the 2 wounds actually dealt, both could be considered the "original bomb attack."

 

[imbored]

I guess we'd need a official ruling to clarify and explain in better context how bombs work.

 

[rrrrupp]

I looked up the rules. "Attack" is defined as both the attack roll and the defense roll so yeah, it looks like Spike wouldn't get to use his.

As for, "original bomb attack". I believe that means you roll the same number of dice as the original bomb attack (minus abilities and equipment and rerolls). It definitely isn't talking about the wounds from the first attack. An attack is the attack roll and the defense roll.