Why do so few miniature painters use oil paints?

[Minimachine]

I've always been curious why this is the case, given so many fine art painters describe oil paints as delivering far more vibrant colors than acrylics.

Could it be the lack of convenience given they can't be thinned with water, or the longer drying times?

 

[MAXXxxx]

for me it's mostly the long drying time. The use of thinner is also a minus as I sometimes lick the brush, which is relatively harmless with water+acrylics, but don't want to experience it with thinners.

About the vibrant colors: not that sure, it may have been the case 30-40 years ago, but now...
(also a lot of the top paintings use directly muted colors)

 

[Dragonsreach]

Why do so few miniature painters use oil paints?

I've always been curious why this is the case, given so many fine art painters describe oil paints as delivering far more vibrant colors than acrylics.
Could it be the lack of convenience given they can't be thinned with water, or the longer drying times?

Its a bit of a misconception that miniature painters ONLY use Acrylics, Oil paints often feature highly in high class European competitions. The 2014 Best In Show for Euro Militaire was a complex mounted representation which was entirely Oil paints.
Look in the CMON Expo threads for Euro-Militaire photos for examples of figures done in Olis.

 

[Bailey03]

I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that oils work better on larger figures. It seems like the majority of people who paint 28mm and 54mm scale figures paint with acrylics. When you get larger, like 75mm, 90mm, and busts, then I see more and more oil painters. Acrylics may still be the more common choice, but at least I know of people using oils for those figures. I imagine if you're trying to blend on the figure, as you'd do with oils, a really small figure would be difficult to work with.

I'd agree with MAXXxxx that the long drying time can be an issue for many artists. I also think acrylics are less intimidating to start with, so people pick those up and then never get around to trying oils. Especially if you get into painting through gaming, it seems like all of the game paints (GW, P3, etc) are acrylics.

 

[ten ball]

I'm always sucking the hell out of my brush so oils are a no no

 

[Josh The Stampede]

A few have hit on what I think is the main reason: the majority of painters you find on CMON and in the non-military-modeling worlds started with gaming, specifically with GW models, and GW paint is acrylic. That right there probably made a lot of people think it was the only choice, and by the time they knew it wasn't they were set in their ways. Like Bailey said, as you go into miltary/scale modeling worlds and larger or historical figures, you'll see more and more oil painters. Beyond that, long drying times, need for solvents, and messy cleanup keep people away, even though those latter two have gotten better over the years and you can now easily buy oil paints that clean up with water.

 

[Splurch]

Lots of good reasons here, but I think the biggest is just the simplicity of acrylic vs oil. For someone just starting, with acrylic, you can just starting painting inexpensively right out of the bottle with a few different colors and easily clean up with water and you can paint and have it dry really quickly. It's probably not going to be all that great without any thinning, but as a starting point it is extremely easy. Basic thinning with water gets much better results for a longer time investment, but doesn't add anything you don't already have.

Oils are a much different game. Even the water soluble ones won't work right out of the bottle, which means you're already starting with thinning, and they are harder to thin than acrylics. Most are oil based, which means you're thinning with a harsh solvent, they are more expensive, harder to clean up and many contain health warnings the acrylic stuff doesn't. They are just very unfriendly for new users. Yes, they do get used, but the effort to do so is considerably higher then acrylics.

Most people that start painting don't have an art background and just want to see what the hobby is like or have a specific task/army etc in mind. Acrylics win on pretty much every front for that purpose. From that point it's just a matter of using what you know and not branching out. I know it took me years to finally look into oil washes or using oils to create shadows. While the results do look good, I still mostly reach for the acrylics for those things because they are easier, faster and I'm more comfortable with the acrylics then the oils.

 

[Webmonkey]

I would say because there are 3 major drawbacks to oils,..

1) the dry time for most oils is rediculously long,.. at least as compared to water based paints

2) most oils dry A LOT more shiny then water based paints. Sometimes, so much so, that it can be hard to hide,.. even with dullcote.

3) long-term discoloration. You won't notice it at first, or even at all on the darker colors,.. but the lighter colors will "amber" over time. It's the nature of oil to turn yellow. So the whites of your models eyes (for example) will look great in the beginning. But you come back to the model 5 yrs later,.. and you'll swear that your pretty painted space marine drinks too much,.. because he's obviously got liver failure,.. judging from yellow jondis that has crept up into his eyes.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

As a mini painter who later found oils, and has painted minis with oils and acrylics, there have been some great observations here. I have a lot more canvas experience than Mini xp, but I can say that for me drying time isn't that big of a deal. If you are using earth tones, especially, and are using some varnishes that increase drying time, your surface will be dry to touch in under an hour. Now, glaze something with some titanium white added and you may have a day to wait, but I am a slow acrylic painter anyway so even this doesn't matter for me.

The whole glossiness thing can be a big deal. Most dry with a satin finish, but here again there are ways around this.

Many wife cannot stand the smell of turpentine. Of course, you can use other thinners, but I prefer this. And then you need an oil based fattener. Though many mini painter just use their oil straight from the tube. Make sure the paints you use are "short" though, as long paints are just too dense and stringy for undiluted use.

Skin looks so much better in oils. Just compare some portraiture in both mediums. Oils are renowned for that "jewel-like" finish.

You our definitely know what you are getting from oil paints. No guessing between brands. In other words, if the paint colors don't have the same name, the elements used to manufacture the pigment are stated on the tube. Like all ivory black used to be made of charred animal bones. All good quality ultramarine is made from the same elements that make up lapis lazuli, except the latter is the purest quality mineral. Lapis goes for over $100 for a 47ml tube. Worth more than gold in its weight.

Regarding yellowing, this can be avoided by checking out the light fastness as well as doing a bit of research. Usually adding a drier will increase chances of yellowing. However, most yellowing takes many many decades to occur. Most.

BTW: Einion was an expert on oils that I've noticed from some pretty ancient posts on cmon as well as some traditional painting sites like Wetcanvas.com. However, he seems to he absentee since about 2011. Anyone know where he is nowadays?

 

[Pygmalion]

I'm an art professional with a background in materials. I spotted a few misconceptions in this thread.

Oil paints yellow because of the oil medium, not the pigments. Over time as the oil film slowly polymerizes it becomes both more yellow and more transparent. In some, but not all, cases exposure to sunlight can slightly bleach it out again, at least temporarily.

Brush licking is dangerous no matter the paint type. As a point of fact, linseed and the other oils used in oil paints are more edible (although don't!) than acrylic polymer plastics. However, the pigments used in all paints can be quite hazardous. "Non-toxic" is not a legally defined term -- all it means is "not on the list of tested and known toxins", which leaves a lot of wiggle room.

I doubt it was ever much of a consideration, but one reason not to use oils is that they are acidic, unlike alkaline acrylics. In the long run they can react badly with lead figures, if anyone is still painting those.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

I'm an art professional with a background in materials. I spotted a few misconceptions in this thread.

Oil paints yellow because of the oil medium, not the pigments. Over time as the oil film slowly polymerizes it becomes both more yellow and more transparent. In some, but not all, cases exposure to sunlight can slightly bleach it out again, at least temporarily.

Brush licking is dangerous no matter the paint type. As a point of fact, linseed and the other oils used in oil paints are more edible (although don't!) than acrylic polymer plastics. However, the pigments used in all paints can be quite hazardous. "Non-toxic" is not a legally defined term -- all it means is "not on the list of tested and known toxins", which leaves a lot of wiggle room.

I doubt it was ever much of a consideration, but one reason not to use oils is that they are acidic, unlike alkaline acrylics. In the long run they can react badly with lead figures, if anyone is still painting those.

Since all oil paints are suspended in a binder, such as linseed, poppy seed, etc, then all oil paints yellow. Since one does not paint with straight pigment, your statement is a bit misleading. It is not as if one must add something to oil paint out of the tube that causes yellowing; oil paint out of the tube, by its very composition, will naturally yellow because all oil paint includes a yellowing agent. All.

Your brush licking comment suffers from the same weaknesses as your yellowing statement. Just as all oil paints contain the mediums you mentioned, and thus will yellow, all oil paints contain the pigments that you mention, and so will be dangerous/unhealthy. You state that linseed and other mediums are actually edible, as if this makes oil paints safer for brush licking. I caution readers: EVERY oil paint includes the pigments that are mentioned, and none contain just the media that was mentioned above as edible. In both instances when you look at these two ingredients as separate from one another your result is a misleading statement, because oil paints contain (normally) linseed oil and pigment (chemical compound). Therefore, in no instance is brush licking of oil paints safer than acrylics.

I have yet to hear from a single soul and that was harmed from brush licking acrylics.

 

[freakinacage]

Why I don't use them (generally)
They lean towards bigger scales (54mm and up) and although you can use them on smaller stuff, it's much fiddlier and:
I tend to over blend, losing the contrast, which is more important in smaller scales
You can't just rinse your brush and go
Time to dry
they taste foul, and spillage is infinitely harder to deal with
being colour blind, the labeling isn't as easy to understand than for most acrylics (the modelling ones anyway)
starting expense, although the tubes last longer and have high pigment concentration, the initial outlay can be more expensive (separate brushes etc)

 

[Splurch]

Something I've wondered about oils is how much will that yellowing effect a miniature if I just do a little here and there to add depth? How much if I use it as a wash? Will it be noticeable eventually with a pin wash where the only spots the oil gets is where it is black?

I like the effect of oil under certain circumstances but have generally been apprehensive about using it since I can't really find good information on how impactfull that yellowing will be over time when I'm not primarily using oils. Also, being sealed with gloss and matt layers that are non yellowing and uv resistant.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

You will never experience significant (any) yellowing Splurch. First, most yellowing occurs in paintings after decades. There are some cases where yellowing occurs after a few years, but this is generally the result of excessive use of linseed or other medium. This was likely Pygmalion's point, and a good one. Also, most of the time miniature oil painters will let the paint sit on some cardboard or paper for about 30 minutes before use, which absorbs much of the linseed out. Finally, all mini oil painters will soak up or brush out excess medium. This is done by either using a dry clean brush to spread out and soak up the excess, thereby leaving a smooth finish and ridding the model of any brush marks, or they'll use a bristle type brush to really push the paint in. In either case, there is little left to yellow.

The minute amounts you plan to use will not cause issues. I'll give you the BloodFather Guarantee there. You could paint the whole mini with oils, have a ball, and no yellowing. The yellowing issue is grossly exaggerated by conventional oil painters because they like to pretend anyone will care about the archival quality of their art in three centuries...lol.

 

[Splurch]

You will never experience significant (any) yellowing Splurch. First, most yellowing occurs in paintings after decades. There are some cases where yellowing occurs after a few years, but this is generally the result of excessive use of linseed or other medium. This was likely Pygmalion's point, and a good one. Also, most of the time miniature oil painters will let the paint sit on some cardboard or paper for about 30 minutes before use, which absorbs much of the linseed out. Finally, all mini oil painters will soak up or brush out excess medium. This is done by either using a dry clean brush to spread out and soak up the excess, thereby leaving a smooth finish and ridding the model of any brush marks, or they'll use a bristle type brush to really push the paint in. In either case, there is little left to yellow.

The minute amounts you plan to use will not cause issues. I'll give you the BloodFather Guarantee there. You could paint the whole mini with oils, have a ball, and no yellowing. The yellowing issue is grossly exaggerated by conventional oil painters because they like to pretend anyone will care about the archival quality of their art in three centuries...lol.

Good to know, I was mostly worried about general washing since even after some cleanup, there's a thin layer left on many parts of the mini. I always assumed the yellowing was similar/worse then older acrylic gloss varnishes yellowing after years in the sun, sounds like it's not nearly as bad. Cardboard for a palette seems pretty solid for reducing medium exposure as well, think I'll start doing something like that from now on. I picked up some disposable plastic cups for thinning in for the washes and was using those for my palette.

 

[Splurch]

Come to think of it, do you think Army Painters quik shade will yellow? I really like its effect from the minis I've seen it on for a good shade on a quickly painted mini. I've shied away due to fear of having an entire mini yellow due to the nature of the product.

 

[SkelettetS]

for me its only because im to lazy to try new stuff, unfortunately. but i would like to learn to paint with oils more.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

Come to think of it, do you think Army Painters quik shade will yellow? I really like its effect from the minis I've seen it on for a good shade on a quickly painted mini. I've shied away due to fear of having an entire mini yellow due to the nature of the product.

to be honest my man, I do not know much about Army Painter Quick shade or any washing techniques. The two guys to ask around here are Ten Ball and AndyG. They both use the Q. S. (as they call it) quite avidly.

 

[BloodFather of Kharnath]

for me its only because im to lazy to try new stuff, unfortunately. but i would like to learn to paint with oils more.

I would truly love to see what you could do with some oils. Oh the skin tones...

 

[WCCrime]

Oils take too long to dry and also can be hell on a brush