[307179] Feedback Requested
- Thread starter Coyote
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PegaZus
Stealth Freak
In case anybody needs it, the link to the particular mini is : here
Not a lot I can add to it. Scored it an 8 myself, before you posted the thread. I believe for something such as this, meant for gaming and not display, anything above 6 is overkill.
I think, should you have wanted to push this a notch higher, I would have made a display gaming base that extended the street scene. By that I mean a larger base where the mini and its base aren't permanently attached. This would have the mini still playable, but then a nice place to store it, too.
As for feedback on the mini itself, the paint job in the picture is a little hard to see. Voting wise, that may have been smart, but it doesn't do well for gaining feedback. You don't happen to have some larger pictures you could post? Might make any warts more noticeable.
PegaZus
Stealth Freak
Not a whole lot I can advise. Biggest issues I could see are nits much smaller than what I can manage. So what follows is what I found when I had to find something.
Thers a spot of white I the base. Not sure if that is the base material showing through or just an errant brush tip. Just outward of his forward foot.
And on that same foot, the sole seems weird. Could be tread, could be spikes. Looks a little like leftover slotta base or pinning.
And my final thing that I could pick at was the white lines on the upper thighs. Middle picture shows that it's a bit uneven. I can't get lines as straight as that, so this is really nitty.
So there you have it. Perhaps someone of more skill can chime in, but other than that larger display base, I've got very little else.
Thers a spot of white I the base. Not sure if that is the base material showing through or just an errant brush tip. Just outward of his forward foot.
And on that same foot, the sole seems weird. Could be tread, could be spikes. Looks a little like leftover slotta base or pinning.
And my final thing that I could pick at was the white lines on the upper thighs. Middle picture shows that it's a bit uneven. I can't get lines as straight as that, so this is really nitty.
So there you have it. Perhaps someone of more skill can chime in, but other than that larger display base, I've got very little else.
The model was pinned to the base after both was painted. The speck could be a bit of material left over from drilling. When I put the pins into the base they didn't want to go in all the way, which is what you see.
So yeah, basing is a weak-point. Also it doesn't help that there is a glare coming from the white background paper that washes out the base. A little gobo would have prevented that, but that's a photography mistake.
Also, I see what you mean about the lines on the leg looking rough.
Thanks for the feedback.
So yeah, basing is a weak-point. Also it doesn't help that there is a glare coming from the white background paper that washes out the base. A little gobo would have prevented that, but that's a photography mistake.
Also, I see what you mean about the lines on the leg looking rough.
Thanks for the feedback.
Garshnak
New member
It looks pretty good! Good colour choices. By painting skill, not something I'd do much better to be honest. But I am more critical than I am skillful (which can make it slightly demotivating to paint sometimes...).
And the main problem I see is: inconsistent (specular) highlights and lack of shading on some parts. And of course, neater is always better, but that's not very interesting to talk about.
Highlights are very important. Just as blends, they can make or break a model. So in general, you want to be really careful and thoughtful about placing them.
And no, even though everyone always seems to say it, it's not simply 'highlight the parts that stick out most'...and then upwards a little, as per 'zenithal lighting'. No, well at least not when you're doing sharp, bright highlights reflected off shiny surfaces (or slightly shiny).
It's okay for matte surfaces to highlight in that way, but then they also should be blended in more, since a sharply transitioned bright highlight like that simply doesn't happen on a matte surface, but of course you know that, so let's continue.
To make good specular highlights that work you have to consider what causes them and how the surface properties and lighting conditions can influence them. And they're very tricky to do right, since they emulate the direct reflection of the main lightsource (in most cases, the sun, you can also have multiple, it's even trickier, but looks very impressive if done well). Which is dependant on both the viewing angle of the surface and the angle of the light hitting it. So it's really entering NMM territory.
The lightsource you can easily just 'simulate', by have it being right above the mini (again, zenithal lighting). But the viewing angle is trickier and you kind of have to pick and choose optimal/average viewing angles of your mini and work from there.
You could go al technical about it and calculate/measure roughly for each point on your mini where light hits where the light has the same angle to the surface normal (which projects perpendiculary from the surface, think Pinhead, all the nails on his head are technically, well mostly, also the normals of the points they project from) as the viewing angle.
But that's a hell of a lot of work. An easier way is to either look at (photograph) the unpainted metal model with a light above it (in a diffuse or dark environment, no sun), or coat the model on key places with a shiny wash of paint (which you can then stip or paint over). This creates a great reference point on to where to put your hightlights. It's also a good learning experience, as highlights can appear on places you'd never expect.
And the lack of shading I pointed out is mostly the boots, compared to the rest of the model they seem a little flat.
Finally, more on the photography, I think a bright mini like this would look a lot better on a darker background.
And the main problem I see is: inconsistent (specular) highlights and lack of shading on some parts. And of course, neater is always better, but that's not very interesting to talk about.
Highlights are very important. Just as blends, they can make or break a model. So in general, you want to be really careful and thoughtful about placing them.
And no, even though everyone always seems to say it, it's not simply 'highlight the parts that stick out most'...and then upwards a little, as per 'zenithal lighting'. No, well at least not when you're doing sharp, bright highlights reflected off shiny surfaces (or slightly shiny).
It's okay for matte surfaces to highlight in that way, but then they also should be blended in more, since a sharply transitioned bright highlight like that simply doesn't happen on a matte surface, but of course you know that, so let's continue.
To make good specular highlights that work you have to consider what causes them and how the surface properties and lighting conditions can influence them. And they're very tricky to do right, since they emulate the direct reflection of the main lightsource (in most cases, the sun, you can also have multiple, it's even trickier, but looks very impressive if done well). Which is dependant on both the viewing angle of the surface and the angle of the light hitting it. So it's really entering NMM territory.
The lightsource you can easily just 'simulate', by have it being right above the mini (again, zenithal lighting). But the viewing angle is trickier and you kind of have to pick and choose optimal/average viewing angles of your mini and work from there.
You could go al technical about it and calculate/measure roughly for each point on your mini where light hits where the light has the same angle to the surface normal (which projects perpendiculary from the surface, think Pinhead, all the nails on his head are technically, well mostly, also the normals of the points they project from) as the viewing angle.
But that's a hell of a lot of work. An easier way is to either look at (photograph) the unpainted metal model with a light above it (in a diffuse or dark environment, no sun), or coat the model on key places with a shiny wash of paint (which you can then stip or paint over). This creates a great reference point on to where to put your hightlights. It's also a good learning experience, as highlights can appear on places you'd never expect.
And the lack of shading I pointed out is mostly the boots, compared to the rest of the model they seem a little flat.
Finally, more on the photography, I think a bright mini like this would look a lot better on a darker background.
Thanks to taking the time to comment, Garshnak and PegaZus. I wonder, does anyone receiving feedback they weren't already expecting. Both commentators raised valid points that if I was honest with myself I would admit I knew were there. It's like we're always hoping for someone to tell you that one thing that'll make your miniature perfect when it's really about making sure each part of the miniature is painted the best you can.
Garshnak
New member
Yeah, I see this very often in drawing as well. When people hope there's a 'trick' or 'knack' to make good work, but once you've got your basic understanding of how things work, all it really boils down to to get your work from that measly 7 to a 9 is hard work. Lots of hard work and determination.
But it will get easier over time, as you'll have to think about things less and your subconscious takes things over for you (like doing blends, highlight placement, you'll just 'know'). This makes the whole process faster and opens up your mind for other things, to truly push your art to the next level.
But untill that, it's good to take a frequent step back and really think about what you're doing. And then go back again and be awesome.
skraaal
New member
I'm always asking for people to critique my work, so I'd be happy to do that for someone else asking the same. Just remember this is all my personal opinion! I'm going to do it in bullet points rather than paragraphs if you don't mind.
First off though it seems a solid job over all. If I were to vote on this right now, I would score it as a 6 for the following reasons:
* Unless I'm mistaken, I can see part of the cast mold still attached to his / her leading foot, that shouldn't be there, if it's not flash then it appears that you have missed a patch underneath that foot that needs to be painted. Prepping a miniature is one of the most important parts of this hobby and it can make or break a finished model.
* The base to me looks like it could be more interesting. The colours appear to me to be too uniform. IRL the areas on the pavement closest to the gutter would be darker as light is less likely to hit the recess, this could be painted on and give more depth to the piece. You could think of making it more dynamic and pushing the contrast. Either use dry pigments around the gutter grate to show dust and dirt accumulation around that area, or use glossy water effect to show sewage running into it.
* Also on the base, at the back of the raised pavement there seems to have been grey paint that hasn't been cleaned up - it looks like when you were painting the top it hit the side and wasn't corrected. Things like this to me are important if you want the mini to score higher.
* The miniature itself looks good in terms of paint application. There are parts of it where you can see the blending is done well and smoothly, but there are also parts that look like they were rushed and as a result there are a few points where I think I can see slips of paint where they shouldn't be. Orange on grey on his right arm, light grey on dark on the gun.
* The main thing that brings the miniature down for me to the 6 mark would be that it doesn't seem to pop. When I look at this miniature, I see an entire miniature painted in mid tones. It seems to lack depth and focal points. Although the head is slightly lighter than the rest of the miniature, it blends into the upper torso and so doesn't stand out as much as it should some OSL around the eyes would bring more life to it and also help draw the viewers eye to that point. I think that the shadows on the miniature would benefit from being pushed a lot further, and that your highlights could be taken up too, especially nearer the top of the miniature.
* The edge highlighting on some parts is not as neatly done as on other parts of the miniature too, with edge highlighting I believe that it ought to be super neat to work, otherwise it looks a bit messy.
* The NMM really needs to have the contrast pushed further, the dark parts aren't really dark enough impo and need to be taken further to make it pop.
Good solid table top mini, I hope the points help. All the best and happy painting!
First off though it seems a solid job over all. If I were to vote on this right now, I would score it as a 6 for the following reasons:
* Unless I'm mistaken, I can see part of the cast mold still attached to his / her leading foot, that shouldn't be there, if it's not flash then it appears that you have missed a patch underneath that foot that needs to be painted. Prepping a miniature is one of the most important parts of this hobby and it can make or break a finished model.
* The base to me looks like it could be more interesting. The colours appear to me to be too uniform. IRL the areas on the pavement closest to the gutter would be darker as light is less likely to hit the recess, this could be painted on and give more depth to the piece. You could think of making it more dynamic and pushing the contrast. Either use dry pigments around the gutter grate to show dust and dirt accumulation around that area, or use glossy water effect to show sewage running into it.
* Also on the base, at the back of the raised pavement there seems to have been grey paint that hasn't been cleaned up - it looks like when you were painting the top it hit the side and wasn't corrected. Things like this to me are important if you want the mini to score higher.
* The miniature itself looks good in terms of paint application. There are parts of it where you can see the blending is done well and smoothly, but there are also parts that look like they were rushed and as a result there are a few points where I think I can see slips of paint where they shouldn't be. Orange on grey on his right arm, light grey on dark on the gun.
* The main thing that brings the miniature down for me to the 6 mark would be that it doesn't seem to pop. When I look at this miniature, I see an entire miniature painted in mid tones. It seems to lack depth and focal points. Although the head is slightly lighter than the rest of the miniature, it blends into the upper torso and so doesn't stand out as much as it should some OSL around the eyes would bring more life to it and also help draw the viewers eye to that point. I think that the shadows on the miniature would benefit from being pushed a lot further, and that your highlights could be taken up too, especially nearer the top of the miniature.
* The edge highlighting on some parts is not as neatly done as on other parts of the miniature too, with edge highlighting I believe that it ought to be super neat to work, otherwise it looks a bit messy.
* The NMM really needs to have the contrast pushed further, the dark parts aren't really dark enough impo and need to be taken further to make it pop.
Good solid table top mini, I hope the points help. All the best and happy painting!
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