3D Prototype Sculpts!

I know... I saw this Virgo Mini before, now those... Shows a new upcoming trend of "virtually designed" Miniatures... I am curious how they are accepted by the Community, since they seem to be a pretty new thing...
 

TreManor

New member
Well apparently they have sold 496 copies of the Asharah model. SO I woudl say this process has been a safe bet for them. I think it will be most interesting to see how this develops. The industry is definitely about to transform. And I am not so sure I feel good about what I think may be about to happen.

Without actually holding the model in my hand, I find it difficult to judge whether or not I PERSONALLY think it lives up to the renders, but to be honest, I think their sales number prove that it doesn't matter what my opinion of it is. If they have found success in this I say, " Congratulations". I think the real test will be their subsequent sales. They have done well enough that they would be stupid not to continue, so if their next efforts sell as well, then I would say that their product lives up to the advertising. No way to know just yet, but it will not be long.
 
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freakinacage

Well-known member
not a massive fan of these. the raging heroes ones look poor, although ashara is ok. i have some of the yedharro stuff and thats good. although that new woman looks mediocre
 

Chrome

New member
As far as miniatures go, I really like these and would probably buy a few if I didn't have enough to do already. But as sculpts... I've always found 3D-printing to be a bit like cheating. I've worked a fair bit with 3D-modelling myself so I do know just how much work there is behind things like that and it is definitely more than a fair amount. But still, it doesn't feel quite right. Mainly because a graphics designer can work with levels far beyond that of a 'real' sculptor just because of the ability to change the abilities of the mesh you work with and the ability to zoom almost indefinitely.
It just doesn't feel fair.
 

Legacy Account

Active member
I've always found 3D-printing to be a bit like cheating.

This is exactly the same argument that has been used by designers, typographers, photographers etc when threatened by digital technologies.

And it's meaningless. Basically the cream still rises and those that are master craftsmen using traditional techniques still prosper. Mediocrity should always go to the wall as far as I'm concerned. Digital technology costs money to buy and takes as much time to become expert with as a ball of GS and a Wax 5 does.

3D printing is now a pretty standard technology. We've been using it in secondary schools for nearly a decade. The next step is for it to filter down to consumer products. Imagine your kids being able to design and print their own Lego pieces or action figures?! It'll happen...
 
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BPI

New member
I assume the tech for having a box at home that just produces whatever object you want is still a bit sci-fi but for simple non-mechanical objects made from a single material, things seem to be about right. So how long until I go to the Otherworld Miniatures website to buy some Pig-Faced Orcs but rather than order 25 metal minis, I get an email with 25 designs in it, each DRMed to produce a single copy, push the code into my matter replicator & out pop my new minis?

My gut reaction is that the 3D sculpting is a cheat but as Spacemunkie says, we'll still have trad sculptors producing some amazing work & a lot of pap, concurrently there'll be the same thing with 3D. I have a bigger problem with people using concept art / 3D designs to advertise their product rather than untouched photos of the actual production mini.

How easy is it to 3D scan an existing model? Should we expect a vast increase in counterfeiting? OOP minis being resurected long after the masters were destroyed?

This tech is all a bit new to me & I've never played with it, interesting though.

Cheers, B.
 

Chrome

New member
This is exactly the same argument that has been used by designers, typographers, photographers etc when threatened by digital technologies.
And that's the way it'll always be. As I said, it's just as much an art to 3D-sculpt as it is getting dirty fingers plowing through a pile of mud the traditional way. I'm pretty sure that was one of the arguments against epoxy putties heard from those using clay then. There'll still be a market for both so it ain't a real threat.
I believe the only thing that actually makes it feel like cheating is the printing part. Creating the model virtually and then (for lack of better words) transforming it to a real life piece.

In reality it's just another form of art finding a way to reach another kind of audience.
 

generulpoleaxe

New member
This is exactly the same argument that has been used by designers, typographers, photographers etc when threatened by digital technologies.

And it's meaningless. Basically the cream still rises and those that are master craftsmen using traditional techniques still prosper. Mediocrity should always go to the wall as far as I'm concerned. Digital technology costs money to buy and takes as much time to become expert with as a ball of GS and a Wax 5 does.

3D printing is now a pretty standard technology. We've been using it in secondary schools for nearly a decade. The next step is for it to filter down to consumer products. Imagine your kids being able to design and print their own Lego pieces or action figures?! It'll happen...

I couldn't agree more.
We need to embrace new technology and work on improving it, traditional sculpting will still have it's place, maybe combining it with the computer tech.
 

TreManor

New member
When the heavy weight throws a knockout is it no surprise, when the pip squeak does so it is stupendous..

I am not threatened by 3D, I was a 3D artist before I foudn miniature sculpting, and I am brushign the rust off the old bag o tricks now, BUT I LIKE sculptign more than I do modeling. Modeling has many advantages, btu I appreciate the end result of physical modelign FAR more.

I am stretching my neck across the block by saying this but, in my opinion DIgital modeling is not " art ". The IDEA of whatever is being modeled IS, but the process of 3D modeling is more a craft than an art.

I say this because it is exact and quantifiable. You can only move the vertices, edges, and faces in mathematically measured increments within the X,Y,Z axis, and can automatically un-do and re-do to your heart's content. It requires absolutely 0 hand / eye co-ordination, that helps a lot but the technology acts like a guard rail to help you in ways that CANNOT be replicated in the real world.

It requires no real manual skill in how the vertices, edges, and faces are manipulaited and moved. You can rotoscope ( I know there is a more correct term for it in 3D modeling ) a piece of 2D art into the modeling workspace and set the camera to a mode that sort of flattens the movements of the modeling to allow you to basically play " connect the dots " until you have a damn near perfect likeness.

Concetration helps but is not an absolute neccessity.

You can zoom almost infinitely which also scales your movements propotionally. Basically this would be like being able to enlarge the face of a mini to life size ( or larger really ) so as to paint the reflections of light on the eye ball.

I could go on and on and on but I won't. I think I have illustrated my point.

I am NOT sayign that there is no skill involved, there certainly is, and there are LOADS of bad CG models and very few really good ones that actually prove that point. There IS artistic quality and character in teh images produced by 3D modeling, but the process itself, I think, is craft.

Art is a very difficult process to quantify, but I think that people DO know the difference bewteen art and craft when they see it. Hence the idea that digital modeling is somehow " cheating ". Personally I do nto think it is cheating, it really is just another tool in the box, but I do judge images produced through CG VERY differently than I do those produced physically by hand. To further qualify the idea I will also say that I judge putty pushing VERY differently than I do Stone Carving, BUT I still consider both of these Arts.



And no the box in teh corner that spits out 3D prints will NOT happen anytime soon.

Why??? Ok consider this. DO you want to handel toxic resin dusts IN YOUR HOME? No, of course not. Woudl you eat or drink from a resin cup or bowl? No, of course not. Teh onyl other material used thus far is wax, which is probably not food safe, nor woudl it hold up to any amount of heat.

When Jurassic park was in production, the big idea in HollyWierd's big heads was that soon, they would no longer need to worry about unstable actors or PriMadonna's because CG woudl soon replace them all. There was actually an effort ( or the idea at least ) to make a new John Wayne movie using CG manipulated footage.

Guess what? It still has not happened and Jurassic Park was released how long ago??
 

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
And no the box in teh corner that spits out 3D prints will NOT happen anytime soon.

Why??? Ok consider this. DO you want to handel toxic resin dusts IN YOUR HOME? No, of course not. Woudl you eat or drink from a resin cup or bowl? No, of course not. Teh onyl other material used thus far is wax, which is probably not food safe, nor woudl it hold up to any amount of heat.
Just a point, the 3D printer that I've used was office-safe. The most dangerous stuff it had was watered down CA glue (Super Glue). Now, it was a plaster powder machine, so it really wouldn't get down to the level of detail needed for such a small mini, but don't discount the technology. It's simple a matter of time and of miniaturization, both of which I foresee coming. There are much more toxic things in daily use in the homes than a lot of these machines require.
 

mud duck

New member
wax, paper, and plastic are the stuff that I've heard of being use.
As for 3D a craft and not an art? I think that ability to transform an idea from ones head on to the computer, and get it to look right (or for that matter, to finish it) is an art. The way it is produced really should not matter.
 

TreManor

New member
" Just a point, the 3D printer that I've used was office-safe."

Hmm.... I have to wonder though how stringent the protocols for that determination were.

I remember watching the video of the WOW colour printed figures beign made and was amazed by the amount of resin dust the workers were breathing in as if it were nothing at all.

" As for 3D a craft and not an art? I think that ability to transform an idea from ones head on to the computer, and get it to look right (or for that matter, to finish it) is an art. The way it is produced really should not matter. "

I don't know. I am not belittling the ability, I just see the processes as yeilding different results.

As for the way something is produced beign no matter...... consider then Milli Vanilli.
 

PegaZus

Stealth Freak
" Just a point, the 3D printer that I've used was office-safe."

Hmm.... I have to wonder though how stringent the protocols for that determination were.

I remember watching the video of the WOW colour printed figures beign made and was amazed by the amount of resin dust the workers were breathing in as if it were nothing at all.
Well, it had to meet California indoor work-site environmental rules, and that's probably a huge manual when printed. But I worked with the machine for two years, and the environment outside the building was often worse than sitting next to the printer. But, as I said, this wasn't a resin machine. Those had to have a special hood, and controls, and all this stuff. Ours was basically an ink jet printer that used sugar for ink and thin layers of plaster for paper.

Oh, here's a link for you: http://www.zcorp.com/en/home.aspx
 

Dedwrekka

New member
I assume the tech for having a box at home that just produces whatever object you want is still a bit sci-fi but for simple non-mechanical objects made from a single material, things seem to be about right.
Just want to note something here. The owner of a former LGS (long story in that) was talking with me about the technology one day some years backl, and mentioned being present at a business convention, where the man showing off the 3-d printer technology was printing out circular tracks with ball bearings sandwiched between that worked as one piece and slid effortlessly (though, without lubricant).

The purpose of the demonstrations was to market the technology as an alternative for milling machines for the creation of precision masters to make industrial molds with.

Personally, I'd love to get into this technology and learn the ins and outs of it. I don't see it as less an artform. You don't have a mind-machine-interface that makes what you think automatically appear on screen after all. However I think that comparisons that will inevitably arise between the two types of sculpting are unfair. As unfair as comparing painting and sculpting to one another.
 

Dragonsreach

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's New.
It's Shiney.
It Works.

And guess what the Asharah model looks better than a lot of GW sculpts.
More power to their Elbow I say, as in the long run it can only benefit the people who paint figures..............US.
 

Klute

New member
Its a technology thats going to become more and more common in miniature making. Myself I see it as just another tool in the kit.
At the moment the level of detail for a 28mm figure is a way off compared to traditional sculpting. Its only a matter of time though before the printers reach that level and them likely overtake it.

The thing is though you still need people to "create" these figures no matter what media is used. I reckon it would cost more to employ a 3d artist and printer than it would cost to employ a sculptor to do it.
Yes these new techs are going to be used more but I dont think the old ones need worry for a good few years yet. :wink:
 

Legacy Account

Active member
And no the box in teh corner that spits out 3D prints will NOT happen anytime soon.

Laser printer, invented 1969
First 'office' model - 1981, $17k
First 'consumer' model - 1984, $3.5k
Now? Peanuts.

3D printing has already been around twenty years. Ten years for it to trickle into a consumer product I reckon. Like I said, we've been using them in schools for years - they've plummeted in price recently. Who says that 3D printers will be limited to resin either? Organic, cellular printers already exist:

http://gizmodo.com/5437954/invetech-delivers-worlds-first-production-human-tissue-printer
 
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