440C Flail

[ThriKeen Priest]

Hey, peeps, check out this flail I made:

I made a handle for it too, but haven't attched it yet:

Off-topic, I know, but somewhat related, I'd say...

 

[cheelfy]

Nice thing. How did you make it.

 

[ThriKeen Priest]

Nice thing. How did you make it.

I started with a 2" diameter rod of 440 carbon stainless steel & programmed a CNC lathe to turn it down to an orb with a dogging post on each end. Then, I clamped it in a rotary vise & drilled holes in it for the side spikes. Next, I cut the eyes in one end post, & turned the other down to a point. I turned down the spikes from 3/8" rod, also 440C on the CNC lathe. To get them in, I heated up the orb in a treating oven & froze the spikes in the freezer, whisking them out to tap each one in before popping them back to heat & cool. Took a fair amount of work, but it's something I'd always wanted to do since I was a kid.

 

[Evil Dave]

Hmm, I probably would've tapped and threaded the spikes (so they don't pop out in the heat of battle) but, I tend to over engineer everything. Good Job!

 

[freakinacage]

bloody hell! rough neighbourhood?

 

[Wyrmypops]

/dodgy french accent "I already got one."

Picked up a morning star style flail for about £15 years ago. Came with two chains of different lengths too, but that makes it ruddy awkward, whatever you do one of those spiked balls is gonna want to thud into your hand. Rather shoddy balls though, too lightweight.

After all that derision, now I want that handmade one, so pretty.

 

[ThriKeen Priest]

Hmm, I probably would've tapped and threaded the spikes (so they don't pop out in the heat of battle) but, I tend to over engineer everything. Good Job!

That was my first thought, but this is 440C SS, very hard stuff. It's difficult to work, even with carbide tools. Moreover, the compression fit I've made is actually much stronger than threading; once thermal equilibrium is reached, they're in there permanently. Threading with run the high risk of breaking a tap in the workpiece, (what George Carlin would call a <B.P.I.T.A.>), & would actually make the spikes weaker due to the minor diameter. Lastly, these spikes would only ever be pushed *into* their sockets, (not that it will ever be used, of course; just a fun art project, a 'curio'.)

@Freak- LOL, no not so rough. I just have a penchant for D&D type stuff.

/dodgy french accent "I already got one."

Picked up a morning star style flail for about £15 years ago. Came with two chains of different lengths too, but that makes it ruddy awkward, whatever you do one of those spiked balls is gonna want to thud into your hand. Rather shoddy balls though, too lightweight.

After all that derision, now I want that handmade one, so pretty.

I'm glad you like it, Wyrmz, & glad I'm not the only one who wants one, too. To assuage your envy, notice the one spike I screwed up on, lower right. I discovered too late I hadn't drilled that hole deep enough. Oh well, it's a fairly difficult project..

 

[Godlikebuthumble]

Not to take the jam out of your donut, but... isn't the chain a bit long? As in break-your-own-hand-when-using-the-flail-long?
Still, very nice-looking piece. You planning on giving the handle some special kind of stain/finish?

 

[DXM]

Nice steak tenderizer....

 

[DannyBoy2k]

Very impressively done, I have to say.

However, as far as I know, and note 'as I know', there are no images of this kind of weapon anywheres. Please feel free to prove me wrong, as I am very interested in mid-evil things.
There are morningstars, but those are a balled maces with spikes, but I don't know of any flails like that. I've seen 'hinged' flails with knobs, if not spikes, on the striking surface, but none with chains.

Still, as a work of art, as it were, VERY nice.

 

[Wyrmypops]

However, as far as I know, and note 'as I know', there are no images of this kind of weapon anywheres. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Okey dokes.

I got a book "Antique Weapons and Armour" I failed to read cover to cover because frankly it makes quite dull reading, but is a peachy source for reference. It shows a Milanese mace of the morning star type with its fixed haft circa 1560, and also a European morning star with grip, chain and head circa 1500 which looks like the crafter one albeit with a more simple but longer looking haft.
When used their ability to strike so heavily and at various points, also offering the possibility of entangling an opponent's weapo or equipment, enabling the bearer to unhorse them, handy eh.

 

[DannyBoy2k]

Okey dokes.

Hey! I didn't MEAN it, it was just to sound humble! You weren't supposed to actually DO it!

I got a book "Antique Weapons and Armour" I failed to read cover to cover because frankly it makes quite dull reading, but is a peachy source for reference. It shows a Milanese mace of the morning star type with its fixed haft circa 1560, and also a European morning star with grip, chain and head circa 1500 which looks like the crafter one albeit with a more simple but longer looking haft.

Interesting, I'll have to see if I can find that. I have seen chain-flails without the spikes, I've seen hinged flails with knobs, and I've seen spiked maces, but never spiked chain-flails.
Edit: Having looked, is that the 'Phaidon guide to antique weapons and armour' by Robert Wilkinson-Latham? Or some other book I'll have to look further for?

 

[cassar]

slight deviation from the mainstream but didnt i see some poor sod on gladiator the movie get "twatted" in the head by one of these as the slaves run out into the arena i think he had spikey hair too

 

[Wyrmypops]

Edit: Having looked, is that the 'Phaidon guide to antique weapons and armour' by Robert Wilkinson-Latham?

That's the one. :jump:

I've other books of the same type as I really do like the arms and armour od the pre-industrial period, but that book does the job for reference, ain't overly verbose and comes with plenty of reference pics.
Pics of this type though, are often very well done illustrations. Not all museums allow their displays be used for books, and many weapons are too rusted to serve as decent reference material. In this case, might be tricky to find a 500 year old existing morningstar flail as the chain could be prone to getting knackered. Just aswell there's presumably accounts in historical accounts and art of them eh.

 

[SkelettetS]

There are morningstars, but those are a balled maces with spikes

as far as i know (and i dont know much about this) isnt morningstar a handle with chain and ball? i think some swedish dude confused the words somewhere cos its just in sweden morningstar is a mace with spikes i believe. (just like the thing that we call camels with one hump for dromedary and not the opposite like the rest of the world...LOL).

nice flail, by the way :good:

 

[cassar]

thats nothing you should see my ball n chain when she gets mad!

 

[Wyrmypops]

as far as i know (and i dont know much about this) isnt morningstar a handle with chain and ball? i think some swedish dude confused the words somewhere cos its just in sweden morningstar is a mace with spikes i believe. (just like the thing that we call camels with one hump for dromedary and not the opposite like the rest of the world...LOL).

Yeah, there's likely some confusion with that dude's use of the term. Morningstar refers to the style of spiked ball. That can be on solid haft or chain and be a mace or flail respectively.

 

[SkelettetS]

Yeah, there's likely some confusion with that dude's use of the term. Morningstar refers to the style of spiked ball. That can be on solid haft or chain and be a mace or flail respectively.

there we have it. thanks for info wyrm!

 

[Wyrmypops]

Cheers for the chance to be answerboy. Makes a nice change, I say "dunno" often enough it could be considered a catchphrase.:embarrassed:

Not really, am just trying some of DannyBoy's humility on to see how it fits. Hmm, it's a bit snug under the arms. :wasntme:

 

[DannyBoy2k]

Not really, am just trying some of DannyBoy's humility on to see how it fits. Hmm, it's a bit snug under the arms. :wasntme:

Don't worry. Take a deep breath. It'll expand.

As for morningstar, having been a mid-evil geek since god-knows-when, I'd have to say that as *I* have learned...a morning star is a spiked club. A mace is a flanged club. And while morning star has been applied as a name to chain-weapons, that isn't correct.
I HAVE heard, once or twice, 'kettenmorgenstern', chained morning star, but that sounds like a modern invention in all honesty. As name, I should add, not the weapon itself.

But, what do I know?