A bit of spleen venting....

[dauber22]

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Forget piffling little hurricanes, here we have a REAL natural disaster, and in a country that isn\'t the most powerful in the world.
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:flame::flame::flame:

Sorry. I donated to tsunami relief. I feel very sorry for the people in Pakistan, too, and will probably donate to that cause as well, but the above attitude jsut really pisses me off!!!!!

\"Yeah, F*ck it! Who cares if Americans die. They\'re all rich and uber-powerful so thier lives don\'t really count. Tragedies that befall them aren\'t really real. They\'re all just staged by Disney or something.\"

When something happens here, we hear way too much of that sh*t. When something happens elsewhere, all we hear is how WE didn\'t do enough to help out. Or in extreme cases, that we somehow CAUSED the event.

Its no wonder that many Americans think we should just tell the rest of the world to kiss our :moon:


Okay. I feel much better now. Thanks :duh:

 

[Eric of Xenia]

i notice that attitude also

 

[Legacy Account]

I expect the UK to get similar treatment if anything ever happens here.

The US and UK are not the most popular nations in the world and it\'s our own fault.

Reap what you sow and all that....

 

[Zora]

Yeah, things like thousands of people trapped, hungry and thirsty, wading through crap-permeated water is piffling.

Human suffering is NEVER \"piffling\". I think those were just a poor choice of words...

 

[Legacy Account]

They were indeed a poor choice of words, but the simple fact is that sympathy is in very short supply for the US.

And that is basically because the US (and its bitch the UK) already tells the rest of the world to kiss its ass....

 

[Dragon Forge Design]

Yesterday in an interview with the president of Pakistan, he was asked by a reporter about complaints by the people about the slow response by the Pakistan government to the earthquake. His answer was even the United States didnt respond to its people after Katrina for 2 days..

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Many countries LOVE our money and for us to give our lives to save THEM but when we have a problem..........................nearly silent. There is a fairly prevelant feeling here that when the next time the s#@t hit\'s the fan in some other country, well, good luck! Were gonna make some popcorn and watch these whiners do for themselves. Seems nowadays no good deed will go unpunished. Were ALWAYS wrong. Go fend for yourselves.:flame::flame::flame:

While I\'m at it, the Arab\'s said the hurricanes were Allahs punishment on us. I havent heard them say the same of their own disasters. :flame:..............yes, I\'m pissed..................

 

[Mosch]

What I really think about the disasters in America.... own fault. Let me just say one word: Kyoto.

Still, the fact that I think America brought it on themselves doesn\'t mean it\'s anymore tragic. I\'m only kinda pissed off that the Kyoto protocol was ignored and I still feel bad for what happened... hard to describe. My attitude towards American politics however is pretty easy to describe

 

[Shawn R. L.]

Geoligical record is abundantly clear that the temperature of the planet has been going up and down for ever. 30 years ago it was \'LOOK OUT here comes the ice age\'. Now it\'s \'oops, no, it\'s warming up\'. Read Michael Chriton\'s book State of Fear. Debunks all the bedwetting over \'global warming\' as a man made thing. It\'s backed up with an extensive bibliography lest it be said this was some kook alone in a cave fantiscising. Clean up emissions? Absolutely! The world is melting because of SUV\'s..............NOT!!!

 

[TAB Studio]

I do not remember seeing a Tropical storm hit Portugal but it will soon Vince has been down graded from a hurricane does any one else remember this happening? I am looking through records to see but I admit I do not have spare time.... I found this chart

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

 

[supervike]

Originally posted by Mosch
Let me just say one word: Kyoto.

Kyoto...the anagram lovers Tokyo.

lollol

I saw that on the Simpsons one time...

Attitudes toward the United States will unlikely change. Regardless of what we have done (or are doing), we will always be target number one. I don\'t disagree with Mr. Munkie. We have brought much of it on ourselves, I am not niave enough to think we have always been the good guy. BUT it also seems easily convienant to forgot all the good the US does across the world.

 

[Sand Rat]

Rant on -

Ever since the end of WWII, the United States to a large part, and the UK, have been looked upon by the entire world as a money source and a source of experts to solve their problems in time of need. The USSR comes in and builds a dam that floods your archeological treasures? No problem, we\'ll move them - and come up with a solution for the disease that we told you would increase when the damn went in, which is why we wouldnt build it in the first place. You\'ve had a hurricane - no problem, we\'ll clean it up for you, but how about not building houses like that any more - no? ok, well spend the money how you want.

People around the world want the US/UK to give them money and dig them out of their problems - but they dont want the other things that come with the money - the changes to your culture caused by having our experts/expats come in and show you how to do things, the belief that everyone should get aid at the same way at the same time, and so forth.

rant off

Now, I\'ve heard that some aid has rolled into the US from outside - AFN has carried a couple of stories about it.

 

[Arjay]

You guys shouldn\'t forget the fact that you have completely and utterly destroyed a country on the flimsy premise of WMDs and terrorism... How many civilians have died now? I\'m sorry but for the time being you have to take all the shit you get.
edit: by this I mean criticism not anything more severe. People are pissed off at the moment and with good reason.

Your government knew very well that there wasn\'t an active WMD program in place within Iraq. Your government knew very well that there were no links between the former Iraqi government and terrorism. Your government knew that forcing democracy on Iraq was going to be difficult to impossible. Your government used these ridiculous excuses to invade a country to gain control of its oil and utterly destroyed it in the process.

I\'m certainly not anti-American - I have some great friends from the US and I happily donated my time to paint something for Works of Heart. I am however strongly against the US government and will be until Bush is gone and preferably the Republicans as well.

 

[leopardpixie]

Originally posted by Arjay
until Bush is gone and preferably the Republicans as well.

I totally agree! well about Bush... I know a few good republicans (their just closet democrats) lol

 

[Arjay]

And why am I pissed off personally?
Your government knew very well that certain countries would not refuse the offer to participate in the conflict. Your government preyed on weak leaders and used pre-existing alliances to force countries into the conflict and now these countries are targets for terrorism. Spain, England and Australia (through Bali) have suffered because of their involvement and I\'m sure more is still to come. Because of this I am pissed off and resentful as hell and can understand other people feeling likewise.

 

[THuff]

ok, I usually keep myself out of these things, but here is my piece.

First off, the original attacks on Bali by Al Qaida came long before this war started. Those attacks have nothing to do with Iraq. If you think they do, then you cannot say that there is not a connection between the terorists and Iraq. I personally do not believe that Al Qiada could have set themselves up so well in the country since the war began without already having a presence before it started.

But aside from that, although I am upset with my own government for using WMD as an excuse for going in there, just remember, there were over 300,000 bodies discovered buried in mass graves that were not very old. Evidence that Hussein had been massacreing his own people.

No one had a problem when Milosevic was removed for the same atrocities, but becuase there is oil in the region, everyboy assumes that is the underlying reason. Any economist could have told you that if this war started, oil prices and fuel costs would rise drastically.


Call me idealistic, but I am not for having an isolationist government. And I think if you are going to play a part in the world, you have the responsibility to the rest of the people of the world. For me it is not about politics, but about doing what is right to stop someone who is killing off thousands for religious or racial reasons.

Do those people deserve to die, just because they aren\'t from your country?


-Terry

Mageworks

My Gallery

 

[No Such Agency]

\"Yeah, F*ck it! Who cares if Americans die. They\'re all rich and uber-powerful so thier lives don\'t really count. Tragedies that befall them aren\'t really real. They\'re all just staged by Disney or something.\"

I think the rest of the world just realizes that the United States as an entity is incredibly inward-looking. A New-Orleans-size disaster can occur somewhere else and Americans barely hear about it.

After 9/11 there was an awful lot of international sympathy for Americans - apparently some village in Africa even sent a herd of cows to New York as a gesture of sympathy. But then all the subsequent threats, bullying and general ass-hatted international relations soured that sympathy to the realization that the US government was going to use it as an excuse for some truly catastrophic military endeavours... business as usual in other words.

So forgive the world if they don\'t see your couple of thousand flood deaths in the same light as the 80,000 dead in Pakistan. Personally, I think they\'re all tragic. And I know some Americans DO care about the world\'s tragedies. But the US\'s world image is that of a bully, and US foreign policy has caused enough misery in the world that American disaster aid is often... under-appreciated.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Arjay
And why am I pissed off personally?
Your government knew very well that certain countries would not refuse the offer to participate in the conflict. Your government preyed on weak leaders and used pre-existing alliances to force countries into the conflict and now these countries are targets for terrorism. Spain, England and Australia (through Bali) have suffered because of their involvement and I\'m sure more is still to come. Because of this I am pissed off and resentful as hell and can understand other people feeling likewise.

Love your stuff, but have to disagree, strongly.

Have you ever been to Iraq personally?
I have, twice.
I\'ve been down those streets, I\'ve seen the poor living in hovels not 30 miles away from decadant palaces.

WMD was an excuse? So fucking what?
We took down a tyrant who was murdering thousands of people, young, old, women and men.
A tyrant who supported suicide bombers, paying their families money.
A tyrant who let his sons terrorize, torture rape, and kill, who knows how many people.
A tyrant that could have led his country into a golden age of prosperity, but left his people in the dark ages.
I don\'t give a rats ass if we gave the excuse that Saddam had Toxic Flatulence.
He had to go. Period.
Name one other coutry that actually asked first before going to war,hmmm.

And the precious UN did JACKSHIT. except turn the other way while accepting Food for Oil bribes.

No, we spend so much money helping out other countries that our poor are in horrible condition. Our projects are worst than some third world countries I\'ve been to.

And if you don\'t believe that the Iraqi people wanted a change look at how many turned out to vote, their turnout was greater than the US or the UK, and we aren\'t threaned with death if we vote.

So, what do you think we should have done?
Let the UN handle it?

And really, Bush and the republicans?
Everyone seems to forget that the Clintons(Both), John\"Flip-Floppin\'\" Kerry, Ted \"Lady Killer\" Kennedy and a slew of other Democrats said the same thing about Saddam and the WMD\'s.
Or that the beloved \"Flip-Floppin\'\" Kerry voted for the war, or wait no, he voted against it, after he voted for it. Or was that he voted against it before he voted for it.
Hell, I doubt he even knows.

 

[Arjay]

Originally posted by THuff

First off, the original attacks on Bali by Al Qaida came long before this war started. Those attacks have nothing to do with Iraq. If you think they do, then you cannot say that there is not a connection between the terorists and Iraq. I personally do not believe that Al Qiada could have set themselves up so well in the country since the war began without already having a presence before it started.

I was referring to the recent attack not the one previous which I do realise was around 6 months before the Iraq conflict began.

I did not say that Al Quaeda did not have a presence in Iraq before the conflict began I said that the former Iraqi government did not have any connection with them whatsoever. If the US invaded every country which contained members of Al Quaeda then they\'d find themselves a little stretched.

But aside from that, although I am upset with my own government for using WMD as an excuse for going in there, just remember, there were over 300,000 bodies discovered buried in mass graves that were not very old. Evidence that Hussein had been massacreing his own people.

How many times has this happened in other countries without the US government lifting a finger? And I\'d also check the numbers and the dates if I were you.

No one had a problem when Milosevic was removed for the same atrocities, but becuase there is oil in the region, everyboy assumes that is the underlying reason. Any economist could have told you that if this war started, oil prices and fuel costs would rise drastically.

This was not a US initiated operation and it was sanctioned by The UN.

The US government expected the Iraq conflict to be a short one, they never counted on a protracted conflict. They would have banked on a short term minimal rise in world oil prices which would have been acceptable.

Call me idealistic, but I am not for having an isolationist government. And I think if you are going to play a part in the world, you have the responsibility to the rest of the people of the world. For me it is not about politics, but about doing what is right to stop someone who is killing off thousands for religious or racial reasons.

I\'ll call you idealistic then.

Do those people deserve to die, just because they aren\'t from your country?

I\'m curious, do you have any idea of how many Iraqi civilians have died since the conflict began?

 

[Trevor]

Sorry, but its a nasty human truth that people only tend to help when it affects them (not all people of course). The earthquake was 2 days old when I posted that and there had not been a squeak about it here yet, also no mention about the mudslide in south america yet.

Hurricane Katriana was a unfortunate disaster made worse by an incompetant government response, but compared to this it is insignificant, 42,000 people are injured and not receiving appropriate medical attention.

Call me cynical (and we will never know what would have happened), but I reckon it would have been ignored by most here, and I still don\'t see anyone stepping up to start an earthquake relief effort. Surely these people need help far more than NO does?

It wasn\'t an attack on America, just the general shallow selfish nature of humankind in general and sorry but America is the epitome of this, with 95% of the wealth owned by 5% of the population. Millions of people are dieing in the world for lack of $1 of medicine, yet your government go starting illegal wars which add to the misery and cost billions that could be used to save lives not take them, not to mention exacerbating terrorist attacks, can\'t people see this is wrong? Sorry, but America is reaping what it sowed and dragging the rest of the western world with it.

Mankind makes me sick and I can\'t understand how we got so lost. I\'m not at all religous, but boy did Jesus have it right when he said \"love thy neighbour\" why is that so hard?

As for global warming, its my professional opinion that global climate change has been exacerbated by man. Going on past geological information, we are on course for another ice age, personally I think that this was starting in the 1600s during the \"little ice age\" however the industrial revolution messed things up stalling the cooling and we are now seeing temperature rising when it should be decreasing. This should be worrying, because it means that the actual effect of mankind is larger than what we are seeing. Also bear in mind that global warming does not mean that temperatures would rise everywhere, shutting down of the gulf stream for example will drastically reduce temperatures in northern europe.

What infuriates me is the blatant disregard for all of us displayed by many governments (yes Bush and Howard I\'m looking at you) for economic reasons. How DUMB are these people?

How many of you insure your car in case of an accident? How about your house in case it burns down? Has your house ever burnt down? Now consider the planet is your house, don\'t you think it would be sensible to insure it? Aaaah problem, we only got one, and we can\'t go down to K mart and replace it if this one burns down. The planet earth is priceless, we destroy it we destroy ourselves, maybe worth looking after don\'t you think?

As for Kyoto being \"too expensive\" thats bullshit, just look who is starting to take global warming seriously... the insurance companies. These people know their shit, and they know the shit is gonna hit the fan. Coastal erosion is costing $5 billion a year in the US alone and will only get worse with sea level rise. The economic costs of failed crops, floods etc etc are going to be astronomical, many pacific island countries are being swallowed by the rising sea levels, and it is the fault of everyone who has a car or uses electricity, so all of us pretty much.

Right, I\'m off to seriously contemplate becoming a hermit.