A bit of spleen venting....

[Evil Dave]

1.) Don\'t blame America for the coverage of the Katrina vs. the coverage of the earthquake.
That\'s not America\'s fault, that\'s the media.

2.) Your arguments about the government not lifting a finger to help other nations would work, if the US government was static and never changed, with each new president things change.

3.) This is not an insult, this is the truth.
Australia, Canada, France and many others, none of these countries will ever be in the position America is. They will never be the economic or military powerhouse that the US is today, they will never know the responsibility, they will never know how much crap we get over what responsibility others think we should have.
They will never have this kind of power and those that have had a taste of this power in history (France, Germany, Japan and others) have not acted as benignly with it.
Don\'t think about what we should have done think about what we could have done, and be thankful that we didn\'t.

 

[farseerlum]

when a disaster happens in a 3rd world country and american relief is offered my thought is...

so thats what? %10 of the money america makes from them a year?

america is the richest country in the world because it owns and runs most of the world.
its a landlords job to fix the house when it breaks. the tenent is not supposed to go round to the landlords place to see if he needs a hand with the mowing.

no one i know feels they own america anything. we pretty much feel america has called in any debts owed by its economic domination. you got your 30 peices live with it.

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von Evil Dave
They will never have this kind of power and those that have had a taste of this power in history (France, Germany, Japan and others) have not acted as benignly with it.

Sorry, but I need some more explanation for this one. When has France ever had such a great influence on the world as America has today? Or Germany? Germany never was as powerful as America neither. Same for Japan.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by Mosch

Orginal gepostet von Evil Dave
They will never have this kind of power and those that have had a taste of this power in history (France, Germany, Japan and others) have not acted as benignly with it.

Sorry, but I need some more explanation for this one. When has France ever had such a great influence on the world as America has today? Or Germany? Germany never was as powerful as America neither. Same for Japan.

see above underlined in my quote, they\'ve had a fraction a mere drop in the bucket so to speak and even with that, history shows they didn\'t do too well.

 

[paintingploddy]

I think you will find that there are many people in the world who would say American power is far from benign Evil Dave. We don\'t blame the USA for the media, we do blame the USA for the arrogant, self righteous tone found in places like your last post. You are not the pinnacle of civilisation, just a deeply flawed, evolving mess like every other country on the globe.

 

[pitynoman]

Originally posted by Evil Dave

Let the UN handle it?

And really, Bush and the republicans?
Everyone seems to forget that the Clintons(Both), John\"Flip-Floppin\'\" Kerry, Ted \"Lady Killer\" Kennedy and a slew of other Democrats said the same thing about Saddam and the WMD\'s.
Or that the beloved \"Flip-Floppin\'\" Kerry voted for the war, or wait no, he voted against it, after he voted for it. Or was that he voted against it before he voted for it.
Hell, I doubt he even knows.

Let Clinton and the UN handle it,like Somalia,like Rwanda?
If you want to be angry people be angry about that.I walked THOSE streets and am still dusgusted to this day at our platitude.Everyone who says leave Iraq now,anyone has a strategy that doesn\'t involve suicide?

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by paintingploddy
I think you will find that there are many people in the world who would say American power is far from benign Evil Dave. We don\'t blame the USA for the media, we do blame the USA for the arrogant tone found in places like your last post.

I\'m defending my country, that has offerred more, in technological advances,and more charity than any other country in history, and I\'m arrogant?
The country that has had more of it\'s soldiers dying on foriegn shores defending other peoples countries and freedoms than any other, and that is arrogance?

 

[pitynoman]

Originally posted by Katana_Angel


Its posts like these that makes me sad. I\'m an amercian, and all I feel like anymore is everything is my fault, Mine, mine, mine, shame on me for using other people\'s oxygen.
I\'m not kidding, either. Can\'t we just... all agree that natural disasters, wherever they occur, are awful? Can\'t we just try to focus on helping the people that are injured and suffering instead of turning everything into a blame game?
Or at least... agree to disagree.
Sigh.

*crawls back under her rock*

Don\'t you dare be ashamed of being an American! No one should be ashamed to be born!Whether you agree with politics or not,be proud.......since this administration I no longer consider myself a Republican......more of a libertarian.

 

[pitynoman]

Originally posted by farseerlum
when a disaster happens in a 3rd world country and american relief is offered my thought is...

so thats what? %10 of the money america makes from them a year?

america is the richest country in the world because it owns and runs most of the world.
its a landlords job to fix the house when it breaks. the tenent is not supposed to go round to the landlords place to see if he needs a hand with the mowing.

no one i know feels they own america anything. we pretty much feel america has called in any debts owed by its economic domination. you got your 30 peices live with it.

30 pieces hmmm,so who did we betray?
you sound pretty bitter
How do we dominate Australia?

 

[pitynoman]

So I get it. We offer the most help to the world who doesn\'t realize we are at far with people who want to drag it back to 13th century,and we get blamed for everything.Sounds great!lolThanks!
We\'ll just have some U.N. summits and hold hands.That will stop those people.

 

[Evil Dave]

Originally posted by paintingploddy
I think you will find that there are many people in the world who would say American power is far from benign Evil Dave. We don\'t blame the USA for the media, we do blame the USA for the arrogant, self righteous tone found in places like your last post. You are not the pinnacle of civilisation, just a deeply flawed, evolving mess like every other country on the globe.

Ah, edited it on me
Arrogant and self righteous? I come on these boards and people are attacking my country.
I reflect back a moment in history, before America was even founded. Weren\'t the big three England, France, and Spain?
Did not all three of these nations try to control, or somehow manipulate us in some way when we started? Granted the French helped us out at first, but that was more to spite England than anything else.

When I stated that, none of these countries would ever be as powerful as the US, just look at the facts, most nations militaries don\'t even come close and they won\'t, because if needed they will just call on America.
IE Canada, and Mexico, neither nations have a need for a real military presence because of their locations next to America.
I have never said we were the pinnacle of civilization, but we didn\'t start the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition (Ha, No one expects the Spanish Inquisition),slave trade, World War I, or World War II.
All I\'m saying is before you bash America look at
your countries past.

 

[Trevor]

I agree with Spacemunkie, I\'ve been waiting for ages now for the US and UK to get round to China...

@ Katana-angel

I\'m not against americans, just your current governments total arrogance and blind stupidity. Unfortunately it is my impression that americans tend to view their government AS their country, thus an attack on it is an attack on them as individuals. In the UK, there is more of a belief that the government is there to serve the people and there is far less acceptance of what the government says (although that may have something to do with the tabloids which love to trash politicians).

Also agree with Painting Ploddy.

How do we dominate Australia?

Like you wouldn\'t believe, increasingly Oz takes its lead from America, especially politically (which is not pleasing many Oz citizens). Look at the recent trade deals.

 

[No Such Agency]

Nobody should be ashamed to be American. But pride of country should never be used to blindly/cynically justify that country\'s actions. Even cuddly ol\' Canada has done some pretty rotten things in the past*, and does that make me ashamed to be Canadian? No, of course not. but it makes it my duty to try and prevent them from ever being done again.

* and things like the state of our Native population are still shameful

 

[Trevor]

look at your countries first

Yes, but...

1) Hindsight is 20-20
2) Just because a mistake was made in the past is not a good reason to do it again, surely we should learn from them, not repeat them?

* and things like the state of our Native population are still shameful

Why does that seem to be a problem in so many countries?

 

[Orb]

How do we dominate Australia?

Like you wouldn\'t believe, increasingly Oz takes its lead from America, especially politically (which is not pleasing many Oz citizens). Look at the recent trade deals.

most of my Aussie mates when I was over there (10 years ago) would moan back then about how americanised the place was. TV was certainly dominated by cheap US comedy shows.

And agree with Trevor about the government/country separation thing.

Oh, and the British Empire; actually just a clever way to make businessmen rich (see india) - not disimilar to contracts awarded to a certain Haliburton and others to rebuild a certain country. Big parallels if you ask me.

Certainly not proud of my countries past; I\'m not particularly proud of my government being involved in an unjust war (Gulf War 1 - Iraq started. Gulf War 2......I think not).

But I wont shout at you if you say anything against my country, especially if there\'s truth in what you say. I wont blindly defend it.

 

[RedDawn]

Originally posted by Trevor
I agree with Spacemunkie, I\'ve been waiting for ages now for the US and UK to get round to China...

@ Katana-angel

I\'m not against americans, just your current governments total arrogance and blind stupidity. Unfortunately it is my impression that americans tend to view their government AS their country, thus an attack on it is an attack on them as individuals. In the UK, there is more of a belief that the government is there to serve the people and there is far less acceptance of what the government says (although that may have something to do with the tabloids which love to trash politicians).

That\'s only because the media portrays it that way. No offense, Evil Dave, but there are lots of Americans who do not view the government as THEIR country - especially with this administration. Bad mouth Clinton all you want, but we had money in the bank, no deficit, and weren\'t hated by pretty much the rest of the world when he left office. AND as one bumper sticker said, \"When Clinton lied no one died.\"

 

[supervike]

Ah, politics, don\'t you love it?


I\'m moving to the moon.

 

[Mosch]

Orginal gepostet von Evil Dave

Originally posted by Mosch

Orginal gepostet von Evil Dave
They will never have this kind of power and those that have had a taste of this power in history (France, Germany, Japan and others) have not acted as benignly with it.

Sorry, but I need some more explanation for this one. When has France ever had such a great influence on the world as America has today? Or Germany? Germany never was as powerful as America neither. Same for Japan.

see above underlined in my quote, they\'ve had a fraction a mere drop in the bucket so to speak and even with that, history shows they didn\'t do too well.

I think I understand where you are coming from now.
Yes, we had Hitler. And I am sick of people accusing Germany today of having anything to do with the genocide.
That said, let\'s move on. You said those who had a taste of the power used it with malignancy. Personally, I think the real power only occured after people started acting \"bad\". If a government is free from moral, at least in some aspects, it gains power over these aspects because it will do whatever is felt to be right and useful.

Now what really gets me. STOP TELLING ME TO LOOK AT MY PAST. Yes, Germany killed millions of jews. Yes, Germany invaded poland, Germany had concentration camps, Germany commited several war crimes. Well? How does that change ANYTHING about the current situation? I hope nobody thinks that I thought the genocide was a good thing, because I surely don\'t. But America has the Power to do whatever it feels like, and America uses this power to its fullest extend. Yes, there were worse things in history. But: There were worse natural disasters in history than Katrina. Should everyone stop caring? You wouldn\'t like that and neither would I. Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi - that seems to be the American thought.

And while I am boasting with Latin: \"Actio recta non erit, nisi recta fuerit voluntas\" - The war in Iraq might have been necessary, but it certainly had the wrong starting reason.

 

[slidedog]

Quite the discussion going on in here. As an american and a **gasp** republican, I have a couple of comments that you might not expect. As a traditional conservative I am appaled by the current activities of our government. The Republican party in this country has been completely taken over by the radical right, neo-conservative, religious fundamentalists. I have never been more worried for the future of our relationships with other countries, and our own social futures.

The continued errosion of our fundamental ideal of the seperation of church and state, should worry every citizen of this country, religious or not. The Iraqi war has little to do with all of the excuses that are presented in the media, and has everything to do with power, oil and religion.

Did you know Bush has bible study in the White House daily, when he is there? And staff is \"encouraged\" to attend? Bush actually is said to believe that he will be president during the apocalypse. Make no mistake, this is a holy war in his mind and he feels mostly justified by his religious beliefs. I find all of this highly dangerous. Fundamentalism in ANY religion represents a radical element that REFUSES to evolve as societies evolve, subverts scientific evidence and research, are anti-intellectual, and forces their beliefs down the throats of others.

Wake up sheople ( sheep + people) this is getting completely out of hand. This country was not founded by religous zealots but the opposite. Most of the founding fathers were NOT christians and were at best deiests (believing in some higher power). It was the age of enlightenment and they valued thought and reason above emotion and faith. They are turning in their graves with the current state of affairs and the erosion of the very principles that they used to found this great country.

Do not get me wrong, I support this country and believe the pendulum will swing back the other way and when people realize the damage that is being done by the current administration there will be a major backlash in our society.

I also completely support our troops and the incredibly honorable and brave jobs they do. I just cannot support this administration and its dishonorable activities that put them in harms way for hidden reasons.

I saw a good point made. Given classical political definitions there are 3 essential elements of facism:
1) Rampant Nationalism
2) Militarism
3) Conservative / Fundamentalist religion
Sound a bit too familiar?

The current administration IS NOT truly republican or conservative but a largely religious fundamentalist movement. True conservatives would not have driven the debt up like they have and would believe in de-centralizing the government not making it more centralized then at any point in our history. Think about it!

That\'s my rant, I\'ll push off now......

 

[RedDawn]

Thank you, thank you, thank you slidedog!!! I\'ve been waiting for a Republican to say something like that. Because I\'m a Democrat I get slammed every time I point out the same thing you just said.

I actually don\'t believe in voting the party line. I think we should vote for who we think would do the best job whether they\'re Republican or Democrat. But it seems that view is not very much in effect these days. If you\'re not \"for\" the President than you\'re \"anti-American.\" (And yes, I have heard this said. Bunch o\'bull imho.)