A dragon I had on ebay being resold...

[Yaki]

So a few months back I converted and painted this model and sold it to the person selling it now. The model is in my cmon gallery. He changed the base slightly by adding that piece to the base...

Mainly why im posting this is he says in the descirption quote, \'This is truly a piece of art that won 2 prices already.\' He said prices, but i wonder if he means prizes? I talked to him on the phone before because he wanted to set up a shipment so he could get it for xmas and his english was somewhat broken. If he does mean prizes, that really makes me mad. :flame:

Maybe someone could ask him. He knows who i am. :] And if he does mean prizes, is there anything i can do about it? They were most likely small competitions, i assume...


Edit: Oh, I sold it to him for $355. Lets see if he gets his money back.

 

[TAB Studio]

@Yaki
I went to get links for you but, the main CMON site is not cooperating right now for me .... I can not even search galleries.

A link to the auction on eBay,
and a link to your gallery would help a lot then we can see what is going on and help.
Hang in there

 

[Yaki]

My gallery: here


The auction im refering to: here


I know my picture of the model is pretty bad.. It was when i was trying to figure out how to resize pictures and ect..and its quality ended up getting messed up. Im a little embarassed of the picture. :~(

 

[Onis Lair]

All the guy did was cut the original base off and add a new one. Hopefully he can\'t sell it, would serve him right. Well that is if he meant prizes instead of prices. I see nothing wrong with reselling a figure but he could at least give you credit for being the original painter.

 

[Frustrated Father]

Frankly, he bought it, and can do with and sell it as he wants, you\'ve pretty much given up your right to it in any form or fashion by selling it unless you\'ve got a contract of some sort saying otherwise. Nothing really to get upset about honestly.

That being said, entering contests with it is a bit of a bad taste if that is the case, but again, that\'s his karma getting the stain.

 

[Yaki]

Im not upset about the base or anything like that. I just wish that i was given due credit for painting the model, especially if it was entered in any contests.

To me, its just disappointing seeing someone resell my work, let alone not giving me credit. Also it bothers me that the bidder will never know who actually painted it. Eh, I doubt theyd care anyway. :]

I guess i just found it weird to see something that i painted back on ebay.

 

[Mosch]

I simply asked about the contests it was placed in - here\'s the answer:

hi in a tournament that was organised in montreal, he won the first time a second place and a first place a month ago in quebec city. the pictures speak by themselves anyway . If you have any other question feel free to ask

So yes, he seemingly entered the dragon, painted by yourself, into tournaments and won something.

 

[Frustrated Father]

Gotta love a shit bag.

 

[Rodnik]

A little bit of info for you.

When you create an original work of art, you basically have three primary \"rights\" to concern yourself with:

Legal Title to the Tangible Work

Copyright

Moral Rights


It\'s my understanding, under US Copyright Law, that
a: A copyright is automatic the moment you put brush to metal.
b: Is *not* transferred under auction, unless otherwise stated in contract.
c: Is transferred under commission, unless otherwise stated in contract.

It is also my understanding that Legal Title transfers under both circumstances. Basically, whoever buys the work, owns the work----but they do *not* necessarily/automatically own the copyright.

For a person to modify an original work, in a legal sense, they must own the copyright to that work. Legal Title doesn\'t give this right. Legal Title gives the right to own, loan, buy and sell that work...

If it\'s important to you----call a lawyer and find out.

Personally, when I sell a piece, I just make it clear the artwork is mine. That is, whatever they do with---they must give me full credit for the paint I put on it. I don\'t necessarily care if they change it, sell it, etc...as long as they give me credit for my original paint.

Entering the artwork in a contest and not giving you credit for the work is not only immoral (and generally a violation of the rules), it *is* against the law, unless you explicitly conveyed that right to him.

That conveyance can take several forms---contract, the manner of the transaction, etc.


When you commission a work, you are basically saying \"Anything I do under this commission becomes yours\". That is, all rights are transferred with the transaction.


Again, I cannot speak to the accuracy of my understanding-----but this was how it was conveyed to me by an attorney.

But he may have been off his rocker....

For future stuff though, just put something like this on your auction site:
\"The work is mine, the copyright is mine, and you can\'t change, compete with, or otherwise do anything to my original work without my expressed permission----if you do, I\'ll hunt you down and beat you with my paintbrush\".

In reality though, the date of creation, the copyright holder, and an explanation of the conveyance of rights is sufficient.



Again--I\'m not an attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Day Inn Express recently.

I guess it also begs the age-old question----Does miniature painting actually/legally qualify as \"art\"?
Considering you\'re painting on a medium that already has a copyright associated with it....
As miniature painters, we could potentially be in danger of breaking the law ourselves---since we are modifying a copyrighted work.

It would cool to know how all this stuff would fit together. Maybe I just need to run get a law degree real quick and find out....

 

[Jarrett]

To be honest, given you got a very nice price for it the first time, I\'d kinda just \"get over it\". Not worth getting hot and bothered over it.

 

[Herb the bitter]

Originally posted by Rodnik

For a person to modify and original work, in a legal sense, they must own the copyright to that work. Legal Title doesn\'t give this right. Legal Title gives the right to own, loan, buy and sell that work...

Where is Vincegamer? Be interested to hear his opinion as the above doesn\'t sound quite right to me. I think as long as you have the original you can do whatever you want with it short of reproducing it or creating a derivative work and claiming it as your own. So assuming you bought minis from GW, short of recasting or using their image to sell something, painting them would not be a copyright violation. Similarly the guy who bought the dragon could change the base and spraypaint the wings bright orange, he just couldn\'t enter it into a paint contest as his own work as it is still a derivative of Yaki\'s work.

 

[Rodnik]

I think it\'s important to understand that Legal Title and Copyright are not the same thing....and each have their own rights/rules associated with them. That is, you can have legal title and not have the copyright--or vice versa.

As for the details behind those rules/laws...the above was just a reiteration of one attorney\'s opinion.

I am in no way an authority on the subject.

 

[Drake Farstrider]

I would contact the the bloke selling it and ask him to amend the description to mention that you painted it. If that does not work then I would either contact the bidders and let them know or contact ebay about it, but only if it bothers you that much.

 

[Yaki]

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I think im going to contact him because it really pisses me off that he entered it in a competition.

 

[Trevor]

Trouble is that if it was bought for tournament play and it won a best painted or something then its a grey area. I don;t know many tournaments that specify you must have painted the mini yourself to be able to play and there are heaps of tourny players that pay to get their minis painted, tricky one.

However, if it was an outright painting comp, then yes its out of line.

 

[evil tendencies]

Originally posted by Jarrett
To be honest, given you got a very nice price for it the first time, I\'d kinda just \"get over it\". Not worth getting hot and bothered over it.

I\'d have to agree with this. Getting upset at the guy serves no useful purpose. If he needs to feel like a winner so bad that he\'ll spend $355 to enter your work...I think you get the last laugh anyways.

 

[doomsayer]

I agree with evil, I don\'t think its very cool to buy a mini then pass it off in a competition as your own, but hell the guy payed $355 for the mini, I\'d let him do as he pleases with it.

 

[beowulfthehunter]

I sent him an E-mail and asked if he painted it and if he did commissions. He stated he did not paint it and gave me the contact info for the guy who did....so he can\'t be all that bad.

 

[desertdragon1964]

Well personally I think if this matter is upseting you this much then dont sell your originals otherwise you basically are wasting your energy that could be put into another great work of art.Besides he is telling people who did the piece originally if they ask thus giving you proper credit when prompted to.DD