A Positive View on Games Workshop

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
Originally posted by Evil Dave
@Dark Serephim

So would you consider the Squats supported?
The Harlequins?

To some degree, yes.. they are supported. You can still get them and you can find army lists for Harlequins out there...

It\'s what you make of it really, because GW have given the oppertunaty for people to keep the races alive...

Besides... Harlequins have always been overpowered :p
The Squata are not and never will again be supported by GW, they\'ve even stated that the Tyranids wiped them all out.

The Harlequins overpoweredness could have been solved years ago by, gasp, a codex.
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by Jericho
Harlequins are getting a 4th edition ruleset, if Games Day Seminars are to be believed.

Squats, however, aren\'t coming back because they were a silly idea.

And gretchin and Orks are not?

We had a large group of squat players who paid a lot of money for their armies, for them to be dropped flat.

Harlequins have been around what 20+ years and they\'re just getting a codex, c\'mon.

and because you had a bunch of squat players that proves it was a viable army for them to continue to spend money on developing. The simple reality is that if they were making money from them GW wouldn\'t have dropped them.
It\'s like people bitching because they can\'t get a new release on their BETA video anymore.

The only thing I would like to see GW do a bit differently with the old games is to license them out if they aren\'t profitable enough. But I have no problem with a business dropping non profitable products.
 

Jericho

Consummate Brushlicker
Yeah, there\'s no Harlequins books. That\'s because they\'re impossible to work into the game while maintaining any semblance of balance.

They\'re supposed to be the fastest creatures in the galaxy, equipped with arguably the best tech. That kinda messes with the 0-10 statline system, movement mechanics, etc. And on top of it all they\'re not an army. They\'re rarely even in troupes of more than a couple individuals. They simply aren\'t well suited to the scale and focus of the game.

My interpretation of the phrasing of the comments given at the seminars is this: They\'ll be the adversary or ally in Codex Xenoshunters (or whatever they end up calling the third Inquisition book). They aren\'t getting their own book, they won\'t be in the Eldar book, but they will get their own rules... doesn\'t leave many options does it :D

Anyway this addresses several problems. Size of the army. As allies you only need a couple of them. Game balance. One or two in a regular army won\'t break stuff like a whole army of them will. Fluff. They have been known to hang around a few Inquisitors in the background.

And if you haven\'t noticed, Orks are far more serious than they used to be. For better or for worse they took a turn down a very dark path the last couple incarnations they\'ve had... way more than just the comic relief of the old GW Ork (and Orc) ranges. Simply put the 40k universe has evolved to be a lot more in line with the \"Grim Darkness\" they always speak of.

Anyway there\'s a lot of people who play with Squats using Imperial Guard or Space Marine rules... they\'re just a standin army. Man, I can\'t believe I got cornered into talking about Squats again... I wish they would stay dead :p
 

DrEvilmonki

Active member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by Dark Seraphim
Originally posted by Evil Dave
@Dark Serephim

So would you consider the Squats supported?
The Harlequins?

To some degree, yes.. they are supported. You can still get them and you can find army lists for Harlequins out there...

It\'s what you make of it really, because GW have given the oppertunaty for people to keep the races alive...

Besides... Harlequins have always been overpowered :p
The Squata are not and never will again be supported by GW, they\'ve even stated that the Tyranids wiped them all out.

The Harlequins overpoweredness could have been solved years ago by, gasp, a codex.

But a cosex could never fix the fact that they look stupid.:p
 

Evil Dave

New member
Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
Originally posted by Evil Dave
Originally posted by Jericho
Harlequins are getting a 4th edition ruleset, if Games Day Seminars are to be believed.

Squats, however, aren\'t coming back because they were a silly idea.

And gretchin and Orks are not?

We had a large group of squat players who paid a lot of money for their armies, for them to be dropped flat.

Harlequins have been around what 20+ years and they\'re just getting a codex, c\'mon.

and because you had a bunch of squat players that proves it was a viable army for them to continue to spend money on developing. The simple reality is that if they were making money from them GW wouldn\'t have dropped them.
It\'s like people bitching because they can\'t get a new release on their BETA video anymore.

The only thing I would like to see GW do a bit differently with the old games is to license them out if they aren\'t profitable enough. But I have no problem with a business dropping non profitable products.

That\'s fine, spend your money on them.
I myself have spent more than enough, and am an unsatisfied customer, I will not spend another dime on GW.
 

finn17

New member
Physician heal thyself.....

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
...If you want to live in the past or go on about how much better everything used to be, well thats up to you.
I\'m not living in the past..I moved on from GW years ago to newer, more interesting arenas and I have no desire to be dragged back to the stuff GW are still relentlessly hammering out.
 

Dark Seraphim

New member
Originally posted by Evil Dave
That\'s fine, spend your money on them.
I myself have spent more than enough, and am an unsatisfied customer, I will not spend another dime on GW.

End of discussion then, wich was what I said 2 pages ago...
 

Onis Lair

New member
just dont come in to my store with that e-bay bought army, play for hours, and never spend a dime!

That\'s easy, i don\'t play warhammer, don\'t know what store you work at and i paint my own stuff. :D Of course depending where you work you may have taken my money for more then a few miniatures in the past. People can talk until they are blue in the face about how much of a rip off GW is, how great they are and what not. In the end GW is a company and that means the bottom line, regardless of what anyone says, is to make a profit. On the issue of plastic figures, if it\'s such a great friggin thing and prices reflect the customizing that plastic allows then damn it, make me some plastic SoB because that all metal army is a killer.
 

Jericho

Consummate Brushlicker
The SOB design cannot realistically be done in plastic... the combination of cloth and power armor would make casting extremely difficult, and the fact that they have a lot of detail on the side of the legs and stuff just wouldn\'t work in plastic either.

Add on the fact that plastic hair always looks bad... :D

I know your pain, I want a SOB army too but I don\'t think there\'s any real way to take the style of the metal range and make it work in plastic.
 

Onis Lair

New member
yeah, as if their hair already doens\'t look bad enough. It\'s not so much i WANT an SoB army, it\'s the fact i have half a SoB army and then found out unlike most of the other armies the core figures i needed were not plastic so the cost nearly doubled and that\'s a bit more then i can afford to spend just to try the game out.
 

vincegamer

Active member
Space Hulk

I\'m curious about this game and the decision to drop it.

Many have said they dropped it because it was not profitable.
Many others have said what a great game it was, that they would buy it again etc.

My theory then is that it was not dropped because it didn\'t sell, but because it didn\'t fit a) the direction the company wanted to go - support 40K as an expandable, flexible game or b) the fluff of the new stuff.

Basically, SpaceHulk doesn\'t actually fit into the 40K universe as it has changed, and I think for that reason rather than a profitability one, they dropped it.
 

dauber22

New member
Originally posted by vincegamer

Many have said they dropped it because it was not profitable.
Many others have said what a great game it was, that they would buy it again etc.

I have absolutely no insight into this specific question, but, having spent way more years than I care to admit in retail of various kinds, all I can say is: Rarely trust what people SAY they\'ll do or buy. It\'s like TV shows. How many times have you heard of shows that get rave reviews that end up being cancelled because the ratings sucked? Quite frequently, I believe.
It\'s my guess that if the game really WAS profitable and they just wanted to drop it to change directions, then they would\'ve either sold it outright to somebody or licensed it out. Its pretty rare that companies just throw away profitable products.
 

Evil Dave

New member
That is probably the one game I would re-buy from GW.
I find it still fit\'s the fluff.
The genestealers are basically scouts that hitch rides on almost anything, space hulks included.
When they reach a planet, the spread out and when they establish a big enough colony, the Patriarch, sends a psionic signal for the Tyranid fleet to attack.
 

Talion

New member
Yeah, there\'s no Harlequins books. That\'s because they\'re impossible to work into the game while maintaining any semblance of balance.

That\'s not exaclty true. I have an old Elder Harlequin Codex wrtten by Gav Thrope, it\'s only small 10 pages long.


I\'m curious about this game and the decision to drop it.

Me too I have the 1st edition Space Hulk and thought it was fantastic. I think like you said the 40k Universe out grew it.

The same with Warhammer Quest, that just vanished with a lame excuse that they lost all the files on their computers. Yeah right.

Basically they want you to buy stuff on bulk, and quick. As we know they change there minis around faster than i change my pants. I\'m so slow at painting that by the time I have got a unit, they are 20 versions behind.

I love the minis, the universe and the ideas. Just hate the big dumb arse bosses that now run GW
 

marineboy

New member
Space Hulk today would be too expensive for GW to sell to their public -- either they\'d have to do a Battle For MacGragg (sp) deal with special not-too-cool figures or they\'d have to sell the game at an exhorbitant price atl east matching the cost of the minis -- 20 genestealer (2 and a half boxed sets at whatever the current price is) plus two squads of 5 each terminator (no idea what they cost today, but they must be pricey).

Add to that the cost of the markers, blips, doors and floor tiles (read somewhere that GW claims to have lost the original artwork to the 1.ed. tiles -- they\'ve just recently published a number of the 2.ed. tiles on GW Online --download them before they disappear here!.

So let\'s tally up:

2 squads of 5 termies apiece, @ 25 GBP per squad, 50 GBP

2 1/2 boxed sets genestealers @ 15 GBP per box, 37.50 GBP

That\'s 90 pounds just for the figures plus God knows how much for the tiles, markers, etc. Shall we say upwards of 120 GBP for the lot? GW can\'t afford to sell the game for less, their customers would buy it just for the figures otherwise.

There\'re lots of other games around that offer alot of kick for alot less (Doom The Boardgame, for example at around 50 GBP). Only die-hard Space Hulk fans and other gittish types would buy the thing (yeah, I would..maybe! lol)

The thing is, GW\'ve priced themselves right out of the boardgame market.
 

6ix

New member
K, I don\'t post in forums often, but this got me interested enough to register. I\'ve always played GW games, back to when I simply didn\'t know there was anything else, I\'ve gone theough at least a half dozen different 40k armies, as well as having various stints of playing other games from them, primarily inquisitor.
-Games workshop is expensive, but hell, so is everything, how much did you spend on your last pointless pc upgrade?
-metal models are awkward, and less fun to convert, yeah they feel nicer, but they don\'t have the same level of detail, and they chip.
-In even a small city, without your own table, and a decent network of geek friends, there really isn\'t anywhere else that you can play games.
-I recently bought a 2000pt imperial guard army, one of the more expensive 40k forces, it is almost all plastic, and cost me under £150. i used some of my old parts, but to buy from scratch. it would still have cost me about £150. That\'s over 120 infantry, and 4 vehicles, and on minimum wage, it\'s 3 weekends, hardly a huge outlay.
-Find me somewhere that\'ll provide an equivilant number of warmachine or reaper minis, and provide me with a warm room, 4 boards, and plenty of opponants to play i\'ve never met before for the same cost, and i\'ll be very impressed.
-games workshop, despite pissing me off with killing the mail order service, still provide excellent back up for all their specialist games, with all the rulebooks free online, and new, useful articles each week.

Finally, yeah, GW is expensive, but it\'s still cheaper and more fun than an XBox 360, and how many of you have one of them in your house, i\'d bet more than one. Oh, and i first heard of Heresy miniatures through a games workshop magazine [Exterminatus].
-Rant over, thankyou.
 

Dammekkos2

New member
Spacehulk was and is the best GW game ever. BB and Necro compare, but aren\'t as good.

6ix - metal minis are more detailed than plastic. Check out the \"Uber-detailed\" current generation plastic kits. Notice the rounded edges and flatness of many of the details.
 

finn17

New member
That\'s what GW say.....

Originally posted by mattsterbenz
GW is putting most of their profits into making more molds. Plastic molds are very expensive, they dont start making profits right away.

Recognise these?

plastic.jpg


I have a box full of these in my games room...they are plastic \'Beaky\' Marine sprues from at least 16 years ago. Whatever reasons GW are putting up for lack of profits, price increases etc, those reasons have been in existence for at least 16 years.
 

Bobinator

Member
Originally posted by Dammekkos2
Spacehulk was and is the best GW game ever. BB and Necro compare, but aren\'t as good.

I\'m sorry mate thats not true, Dark Future was the best game they ever produced :p
 

funnymouth

Active member
car games are cool.

i think a central reason for all the negativity here, is that we are (for the most part) mini painters, not mini gamers. sure, i play - but i also care about the minis. a 60 man mini army with some boxes with guns (read: transports) is a lot. thats a lot of \"rank and file.\" not so fun to paint. id prefer variety and fun to paint mins. the alternative gw games fit the bill, but they have been neglected. i like the whfb minis, why cant i use half of them in mordheim? how come the lizardmen stuff is from 20 years ago? why dot the promote the game?

id say they have steared away from the smaller games they have because they want people to buy 60 minis. warhammer skermish is a joke. why dont thwey work on a smaller scale version of the game? eg what confrontation is to ragnarok? it would get people in to the game, or a new faction, without requireing them to drop a few hundred.
granted, they did try the escalation thing, in a half assed sort of way.
i guess my real problem is with the games themselves. i like the idea, and many of the minis are quite cool. its just that its not fun. as someone (who was it, i cant find it now....) said \"the fun to price ratio\" is lame.
maybe its that, or the fact that i spent $500 on an army that cant win (or even have fun with). i know the force well, i know all the tricks, the ins the outs etc. basically suggestions i recieve on improving the armies playability boil down to \"buy a whole new army.\"
anyhow, they are good, its just not my game anymore. in my gaming circle its getting hard to even get a pick up game of 40k these days (and i have NEVER seen anyone play whfb). ill play a smaller, funner game, and not break my back or my wallet with the minis.
 
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