A Positive View on Games Workshop

[mattsterbenz]

Well, before you reply to this, hear me out. Take what I have to say, and really think about where you stand.

Games Workshop: Everyone in the miniatures buisness knows this company. Most use their paints, play their games, paint their models, COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR PRICES. Well im here to say it\'s completley fair, and has not really changed in the past several years. Also in comparison to other companies, competitive prices.

I DO NOT WORK FOR GW, JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

For those who want to know, the following older prices are from White Dwarf #222, and the new prices are from my store\'s product shelves.

Lets take for example, some Imperial Guard heavy weapon teams. Older price: $9.99. New Price: 3 for $30.00. What is the difference? The older set had 3, 1-piece models. Completley static, no customising possible without converting. The new ones: TONS of plastic sprues, several extra heavy weapons, every model in several pieces to create different poses. No difference in price per model, Huge difference in quality.

Next example: the imperial guard sentinal. That old metal one is ass ugly. Also $24.99. The new plastic one: SAME PRICE!!! Huge difference in quality, no difference in price.

Now, the space marine tactical squad: $35.00 (thats $3.50 per model) with tons of extra bitz, optional heavy weapon/assault weapons, purity seals, etc... The 2nd edition blister of 2 metal marines (no extra bits, no posable pieces) was $7.99! ($4 per model) Now that looks to me like a LOWER PRICE, for the newer, better, plastic models. What is the whining about?

Some might say: \"Oh plastic is cheaper, the model sets shouldn\'t be as expensive as metal.\" My arguement is, whats the difference? Heavier models? No personalizing your model\'s pose with metal? The plastic kits have the most customizing possible in a model, aside from sculpting one yourself. Other companies charge more, yet for some reason GW gets picked on.

Lets take Rackham for example: This goblin box on the wall next to me (based on the current exchange rate) is $32.00 for 8 models. At $4 a piece, thats a higher rate than the space marines, and a much higher rate than the fantasy core boxes (16-24 models for $35.00).

Recently, the paint cost went up to $3 per jar. So many people bawled that im surprised a riot didn\'t break out. This is the same cost as Vallejo and Reaper master series paints. Games workshop paint is thicker, does not settle into 5 layers like vallejo does, so it does not need to be shaken for 3 minutes per color, and the flip top bottles are the best for easy access.

My point is, there is no huge difference in prices. Stop saying \"8 years ago i could get things so much cheaper!!!\" Thats a lie. Games workshop is top of the notch, has great gaming systems, and customer service that can\'t be beat (Hobby centers offer free tips, great looking tables, etc... for no fee, other than having a GW produced army to play on the tables).

My point is, there is nothing wrong with games workshop. I am sick and tired of people shouting about prices, when there has been little to no change in price over the past 10 years. Stop complaining, they are a great company. They have far better hobby support than any other company, and are truly a great promoter of the hobby.

I am not trying to start a fight, I am just saying there is nothing to complain about, there is only praise for the company for doing far better than any other in the buisness.

-Matt Sterbenz

P.S. Games Workshop, keep doing what you are doing, promote the hobby, and keep the spirit of wargaming alive.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

I hear ya man

I agree with this totally. I myself have become used to these prices, yes, they are somewhat pricey, but they are worth it most of the time. I say this, I have seen some models that are tiny as hell go for $45 and not even be cfonverted, painted, or limited edition.

 

[Swordwind]

Forgive me if I\'m wrong but isnt it a bad thing for the paint to be thick? Lots of thin coats instead of one thick one?

And 20 Orcs used to cost £10. For the same Orcs we have now. Except they now cost £18. Or you could buy 4 snap together ones for £6...

 

[james sequeira]

in the uk vallejo is alot cheaper than gw\'s paints
i dont agree on the same cost for their plastic models that used to be metal even if you do get extra bits i suppose i like to feel the weight for what i am paying and metal are easier to strip for repainting

(edit) just realised the above comment i end up thinning gw paint more than vallejos because it is thicker also gw has less paint in the pot

 

[mattsterbenz]

@swordwind: I agree. Some of the boxed sets are a bit more for the same models, but they seem to price on box size too: it would not make sense to get 20 orcs for the old price and the new box of dwarf warriors for more. plus prices rise from inflation, shipping costs more, plus, look at how much more hobby support there is now compared to 10 years ago.

@james, thicker is not always bad. i always use gw paint, and it seems more than sufficient. vallejo paint settles with that watery stuff on the top, making it a hastle to mix, plus, all the colors seem to cover well enough (with exception of graveyard earth and the yellows.) even some vallejo paint takes a couple coats too. plastic can be easily stripped: simple green or superclean. I know the weight issue seems to be a factor with the mental thought of \"getting your money\'s worth\", but in the end, all great looking models look good for the paint on them and the sculpt quality, not the weight.

 

[RedSevenBlue]

Metal feel is awesome, but getting a ton of extra bits is awesome for the huge amount of converting I do.

 

[james sequeira]

gw used the inflation as an excuse when i asked them

i replied with inflation is about 4% ish isnt it your prices have gone up 25%

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by james sequeira
gw used the inflation as an excuse when i asked them

i replied with inflation is about 4% ish isnt it your prices have gone up 25%

once again, refer to the amount of hobby support now, the rise in shipping costs, and the dramatic improvement on quality. not to mention it\'s still cheaper than most other companies boxed sets.

edit: also, i dont know the exact %, but if inflation is about 4% as you say, 5-6 years would add up to a 25% rise, they are not raising 25% every year. its nearly every 5 that they adjust.

 

[james sequeira]

when i started out in this hobby i though gw was ace

looking back now after discovering all the great other companies what was i think i was getting totally ripped off as a young kid

 

[KingM]

I agree with most of the positive points, GW do seem to be criticized too heavily for some of the things they do. When all is said and done, the smaller companies would not be able to survive if they were not able to appeal to a stable market that, for the most part, GW has created and sustains. Most of the other companies seem to match them price-wise, if GW are so evil and a rip-off, surely the others would be charging less ???.

Having said that, the increase in GW\'s size seems to have meant that they have lost their sense of humour to a certain extent. This can be seen, for instance, in WD content, which seems to have become more geared towards towing the company line and less about the views and ideas of the average gamer or painter.

 

[funnymouth]

gw is a great thing. as marineboy stated earlier

They\'re only advancing the cause of gaming and nurtuing those who will in the future buy Hasslefree, Heresy, Freebooter...why, if there were more GW stores around, maybe Spyglass would have survived!

very true! the shiny mini rack in the back attracted me. some of their stuff is great, neat fluff too. the price (by the mini) isnt bad either. thats not my beef. over the last few months though, ive come to the conclusion that im out of intrest for gw. ill buy a mini from time to time - but never another army. im sick of 1800 point armies, i dont want to buy 65 minis that all look the same. i cant bear to bring myself to paint another power armored mini. an EFFECTIVE army costs a s*** load of money. it costs me $70 bucks for a 10 man gk squad, with crappy weapons. i need two of those, base, plus an hq unit, etc. etc. etc. - and it wont win a game. typically i have to take a 30 bullshit to 1 mini i want ratio. a confrontation game usually has less than 14 models. i dont like the broken rules, or being forced in to taking something if i want a chance in hell of winning. im tired of the latest greatest codex, and minis with the allometry of a 3 year old.

i just dont have much fun with the game any more. move 6\" and shoot, whoopty f***in doo!

anyhow - like i said, GW is great and all, i just want something fresh, and i dont want to pay $500+ for the latest flavor, only for it to end up tasting like the same old pralines and dick that they sold me before.

 

[mattsterbenz]

funnymouth, i agree... it can be pricey to pick up a full 1500 or 2000 point army. playing in large point battles is not going to be like buying a dozen models for some of the other games (like confrontation) but model prices (per boxed set) are roughly the same. Also some armies are more expensive than others because of needing all metal models (demonhunters and witch hunters for example). It would be the same cost to have a huge army warhammer fantasy as it would for Rackham\'s Ragnarok game system, and if you wanted to play mordheim or necromunda, it would be the same cost as a small confrontation group.
thats like comparing the cost on a bowl of cereal to a buffet. both are food, yes, but one costs more for a reason, because you get more.

 

[funnymouth]

true, and i appologise for the rant.
gw games dont work very well for small point buy ins though, and while their specialist games can be fun, its clear that they dont care much about them. the rules can be kooky and they never, ever do anything new for them.
its not as though im going to buy any fewer minis - i will just have five warbands instead of one bloated army.
the shop is great for intro stuff - but i think many of the other systems have as much, if not more, to offer in terms of gameplay, mini variety, and mini quality.

 

[Dammekkos2]

mattsterbenz, you have chosen some good examples there, but it would be easy to find a lot of examples where prices have doubled.

Also, not everyone likes plastic (you seem to be saying that plastic minis are better, and we should be happy that many of the minis are now plastic). I think I have only 1 plastic mini in my cmon gallery.

 

[Bobinator]

I agree with some of the views offered but dont on others, yeah games workshop provide a lot of support for the new inexperienced gamer/painter at the cost of dumbing down the products they produce, this is a cunning move on their part as it expands the customer base, give me rogue trader any day over the simpleton edition rules out now, I\'ve played both and prefer to have small more intensive battles with loads of customised guys on the board than a whole heap of them all basically the same and not really cutting the mustard. I would also like to to put in that in years gone by I went out and bought a terminator box set of eight for the princely sum of £8.99p and back then they were some awesome models, blew my mind when I got WD #112 and saw them inside I knew I had to have them at all costs, now though I saw the new plastic ones and the first thing that blew me away was the price, I cant even remeber which issue their in thats how much they grabbed me, so I couldn\'t pose the old metal ones how I wanted quite frankly I wasn\'t all that bothered they were great. Another thing was that I could get the three pack rhino set for about a tenner odd and at the time they were great to, still are really, also five whole metal marines at £2.50p, with each one being really characterful, now all the marines look pretty \'normal\' each one just like the last unless the owner has actually put some time and effort into it, which only the dedicated few do. The prices actually do get up my nose a bit, I mean really how much does the metals and plastic cost? peanuts thats what, I chuck out more bloody sprue than I actually get model wise to keep, if it costs so much why do they waste it like that? and metals the same, it costs nothing, I can go to my local scrap yard and pick up a whole car for 20 quid and its a better grade stuff, I understand its not that sort of metal but it aint special either, you pay some monkey to pour the stuff into the centri-cast and hey presto out comes lots of shiney hot models do that a few thousand times and wrap em in in little packet and flog them, its not hard to grasp the costs thing, they charge the earth for these things so the fat bloke and all the rest can bum around in their nice shiney jags and mercs and the share holders make a load too, the cost is minimal and the profit is whatever they can get away with charging with going under, oh yes! I mean a whole bunch of CMONers could make a company that could rival GW and have a damned sight more talent too, I like some of the stuff they (GW) knock out but alot of it looks like lego, all very dull and samey, evrybody stop buying their stuff for a bit and watch the prices plummet all you got to do is have a good moan en mass. A little secret for those that dont know, I used to be a staffer and I enjoyed being there especially for the discount, I bought a whole company of marines, yep a whole hundred man company and all the transports for just under 45 quid, I didnt just do this once either, did you know you can get one whole kilo of metal for 30 quid, thats four metal dreads! and they still make a few quid from that, so nobody gonna tell me the customer aint being diddled cos I know they are.

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by Dammekkos2
mattsterbenz, you have chosen some good examples there, but it would be easy to find a lot of examples where prices have doubled.

Also, not everyone likes plastic (you seem to be saying that plastic minis are better, and we should be happy that many of the minis are now plastic). I think I have only 1 plastic mini in my cmon gallery.

Some prices have increased dramatically, I am fully aware. You need to realize that up until a couple years ago, the prices on most things had not changed for several years. GW is not raising prices at every possible time. At games day LA, in the independent retailer seminar, they discussed prices. They are on a 5-year plan. the new core boxes that were recently adjusted will not be changed for 5 years. Blisters are next in line, some will lower and some will rise, others will remain the same, and will be re-evaluated in 5 years. Also, as a pretty much definate, but not discussed by GW,all batallion boxes will be lowered to $90, and the new fantasy starter (over 110 models) will be $45.

People dont understand that GW\'s price adjustments happen as often as anything else. It does not happen every month, its whenever it needs to, every several years, but every year it\'s a different section (Core boxes last year, blisters this year, etc...)

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by Bobinator
I agree with some of the views offered but dont on others, yeah games workshop provide a lot of support for the new inexperienced gamer/painter at the cost of dumbing down the products they produce, this is a cunning move on their part as it expands the customer base, give me rogue trader any day over the simpleton edition rules out now, I\'ve played both and prefer to have small more intensive battles with loads of customised guys on the board than a whole heap of them all basically the same and not really cutting the mustard. I would also like to to put in that in years gone by I went out and bought a terminator box set of eight for the princely sum of £8.99p and back then they were some awesome models, blew my mind when I got WD #112 and saw them inside I knew I had to have them at all costs, now though I saw the new plastic ones and the first thing that blew me away was the price, I cant even remeber which issue their in thats how much they grabbed me, so I couldn\'t pose the old metal ones how I wanted quite frankly I wasn\'t all that bothered they were great. Another thing was that I could get the three pack rhino set for about a tenner odd and at the time they were great to, still are really, also five whole metal marines at £2.50p, with each one being really characterful, now all the marines look pretty \'normal\' each one just like the last unless the owner has actually put some time and effort into it, which only the dedicated few do. The prices actually do get up my nose a bit, I mean really how much does the metals and plastic cost? peanuts thats what, I chuck out more bloody sprue than I actually get model wise to keep, if it costs so much why do they waste it like that? and metals the same, it costs nothing, I can go to my local scrap yard and pick up a whole car for 20 quid and its a better grade stuff, I understand its not that sort of metal but it aint special either, you pay some monkey to pour the stuff into the centri-cast and hey presto out comes lots of shiney hot models do that a few thousand times and wrap em in in little packet and flog them, its not hard to grasp the costs thing, they charge the earth for these things so the fat bloke and all the rest can bum around in their nice shiney jags and mercs and the share holders make a load too, the cost is minimal and the profit is whatever they can get away with charging with going under, oh yes! I mean a whole bunch of CMONers could make a company that could rival GW and have a damned sight more talent too, I like some of the stuff they (GW) knock out but alot of it looks like lego, all very dull and samey, evrybody stop buying their stuff for a bit and watch the prices plummet all you got to do is have a good moan en mass. A little secret for those that dont know, I used to be a staffer and I enjoyed being there especially for the discount, I bought a whole company of marines, yep a whole hundred man company and all the transports for just under 45 quid, I didnt just do this once either, did you know you can get one whole kilo of metal for 30 quid, thats four metal dreads! and they still make a few quid from that, so nobody gonna tell me the customer aint being diddled cos I know they are.

well im not sure I know what to say here. From what I could understand you were saying how the metal and plastic supplies dont cost much. What you are paying for is QUALITY models, with fantastic detail. GW must pay their employees, their sculpters, the cost of the great tables at their stores, etc... And do you know how much it costs do make one of those moulds for the plastic models? A hell of a lot! well in to the 6-figure range i might add. All that must be taken into account, they cant just mark up the cost of the materials slightly.

 

[james sequeira]

im sorry but its not like there raising prices a bit were talking 25% here

 

[Bobinator]

I wasnt sure either, just felt like having a say, yeah I understand all the cost and that but that still doesnt come to any near the mark, the cost of making a centri-cast mould isnt that much really, the steel injection mould does cost I grant you but no way costly enough to justify how they charge as much as they do. £125,000 on average for the mould, add a load of printing runs for the boxes, and transportation, then do a few hundred thousand production runs at say your average kit price of £25 result shed loads of dosh. More than enough to pay all the wages and costs and still have a huge surplus of the filthy lucre and when you got a huge amount of these runs going 24/7 on all the ranges you are going to make one stupid amount of money.

Quality, yeah ok there are some good figs but there are some right shite ones to, hmmm... quality platics, nah mate flat and dull, like I said lego. Cost of making a table? tenner budget each and get the staff to do it, np\'s. Each figure on average uses up I think it was about 0.25p worth of metal, a quarter pence! materials dont cost unless you buy it by the skip load and then the cost aint all that.

I just dont like the kids forking out vast sums of money and not getting a good deal, the vast amount of kids that blob away on their models aint bothered about quality, we are I admit, but to them that are only short term customers are being screwed for as much as the firm can get out of them, I feel bad when I see some young fella just painted up his new marneus and it looks poo you might as well just give em pokemon figures to paint, its just bad for the kids, I feel they should produce a simple range for the hamfisted mites, cos it just aint right, for Gods sake man think of the children...

 

[Bobinator]

I agree with James here, 25% is taking the piss which ever way you look at it, and its not the cost of production that has gone up has it, no its the greed of the guys at the top that has.

Like I said its all about having this huge turn over of short term gamers, they dont give a monkeys how long their in the hobby for or how good a painter gamer they become as long as their sucked in and bled dry while their in is all that matters, they couldnt give a wet fart that their pretty much robbing the paper round money out their pockets as long as they make heaps of money.

I doubt theres any answer out there about this subject apart from the simple one which is that they are greedy bastards who dont care as long as we out here keep buying the stuff the churn out.