A Positive View on Games Workshop

[Jericho]

Exactly my point, Matt.

And even if you feel like comparing with Warmachine, a 500 point list that I\'m thinking of getting for Khador will cost probably around $150 US. And I\'ll probably end up with a decent amount of stuff above and beyond that for variety\'s sake... couple extra jacks, maybe another box of infantry and some more casters will put things in the $250 range.

Re: Greatswords being $50 in the US... that\'s surprising. Again I can\'t always defend the US prices on pewter, they seem out of whack in a lot more instances than Canada and the other countries.

 

[mattsterbenz]

Originally posted by sebrushworth
Where are you getting your information about paint prices? GW paint generally costs 3 dollars for a 12 ml bottle, while Vallejo generally costs 2.50 for a 17 ml bottle. That\'s a big difference in price. In my opinion (having used both extensively) Vallejo is also far superior, and the dropper bottles are much more useful than GWs pots (at least if you use a palette and water the paint down before putting it on the figure).

I\'m not rabidly anti-GW on principle. I\'ve been in to the hobby for 13 years and it\'s GW that got me in to it, and I think a lot of their new stuff is far superior to anything they made before. But obviously GW are doing something wrong, since they barely turned a profit last year.

I really don\'t understand what the problem is with plastics, specially now that the quality of plastics is nearing or even surpassing the quality of metals. The reason plastics are expensive is because the moulds are much more expensive than the metal moulds. Paint sticks better to plastic, if you drop a plastic figure on the floor it won\'t break apart or chip, and converting is much easier. Big advantages in my opinion.

here in the states GW, Reaper master, and Vallejo game and model colors are all $3.

and yes, GW did not make much of a profit, which proves that \"greed and ripping people off\" theory that whats his name had earlier is not true.

 

[Sand Rat]

Or it just could be after years of poor customer service, middling product, and bad business models, they are falling victem to their own actions.

It was less than 3 years ago that they slapped the IR\'s in the face with new business policy, and now you are saying they are courting them? Sounds like they found out that the IR\'s could live without GW, but GW cant live without them.

And I\'m sorry, but 5 year plans don\'t work for North Korea, don\'t work for China, and didn\'t work for the USSR - why the hell will they work for GW?

Still sounds like bad business planning to me.

 

[Jericho]

Well GW funnels most of their profits back into developing their games, and some might say too much into certain games... *cough*LOTR*cough* sorry about that, I must be sick or something.

I think the moral of the story is that Space Marines make the company profitable, everything else is just there for Space Marines to fight against, or is used to paint/assemble Space Marines.

On a more serious note: I have worked for GW in the past, and I\'ve been a gamer for I think 8 years now. And this is one of the first threads I\'ve seen started with the intent of giving them a pat on the back for their business practises. I\'m really happy, even if there\'s some (probably appropriate) critiques of certain pieces in their ranges.

How they decide to handle Independent Retailers is well beyond my understanding at this point. It\'s different from country to country, but I do think they realised that they lost out by treating them worse than they deserved in the last couple years. At leats in the States.

 

[sebrushworth]

Uh, maybe GW is cheaper in the US than here in Europe (possibly because the pound is so strong), but a 2000 point army here would cost more like 500 dollars.

GW should just move production to China, like Wizkids have done. Then they could charge less!

 

[sebrushworth]

Hmm, well I don\'t know what the store prices in the US are for Vallejo paints, but the on-line stores generally charge 2.50, and the stores here in Stockholm charge 25 Swedish kronor for a Vallejo bottle, while GW charges 33 Swedish kronor for a bottle of its paints. And even if they charged the same price, you get 17 ml in a Vallejo bottle but only 12 ml in a GW pot. And since GW has pots, while Vallejo has dropper bottles, GW pots tend to dry out a lot faster.

 

[zombiesincorporated]

Yeah, I was a hater too . . . until I found Jesus.

When GW raised prices I wasn\'t happy. I went through the paces of denouncing them as money hungry dogs. For the most part, I was wrong. GW makes a great product and it\'s no more expensive than anyone\'s elses. We all sound like old timers who complain that they used to be able to go to the movies for a nickel. GW has done a lot to foster a cummunity, especially with the Golden Demon competition. The bottom line is I wouldn\'t have gotten into the hobby, gotten out of it, then got back in if it weren\'t for Games Workshop. Once I put away my prejudice about plastics and price hikes and looked at the whole thing objectively, I realized I was kinda being a dummy. I LOVE the plastic kits now. I prefer them because I like to customize and it always REALLY REALLY bothered me having a unit, 30 deep, comprised entirely of the same posed models. ARGH! Although, I do agree with whichever chap it was that said White Dwarf is towing the line. I used to be a fanatical reader, now I flip through it for 2 minutes at the shop and I feel like I\'ve wasted my time.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

I agree mastterbenz. Unfortunatley it doesn\'t matter what logic you use you wont convince the haters out there. I mean complaining that GW paint is thick? Have you ever heard of water?
As to metal figs weigh more whoopy F%$&ing do. I want to look at them not throw them at people.
Its also amusing to me when people complaining about a business simply doing what business is designed for - trying to make a profit. Oh god please save us all from a free market economy!

 

[Sand Rat]

Umm, Doc, according to GW they didnt make enough of a profit last year - it was only slight.

And now this thread has taken an ugly turn - disagree with someone\'s opinion and you are automatically a hater. Personally I\'m glad people like GW and the product they put out - I have stated that I agree with some of what has been stated before - but that GW minis or GW plastics are the end all be all of the hobby? Nope. Never will agree with that. I guess that makes me a hater. Well, so be it.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by steelcult
Umm, Doc, according to GW they didnt make enough of a profit last year - it was only slight.

And now this thread has taken an ugly turn - disagree with someone\'s opinion and you are automatically a hater. Personally I\'m glad people like GW and the product they put out - I have stated that I agree with some of what has been stated before - but that GW minis or GW plastics are the end all be all of the hobby? Nope. Never will agree with that. I guess that makes me a hater. Well, so be it.

Don\'t take it personally. In this case hater is simply a reference to people with a negative outlook. Disliker just sounds silly.
And don\'t get me wrong I could care less what company people like or don\'t hmm maybe I should use more smileys to show what a jovial lad I truely am!lol:innocent:
I used to be an altar boy after all and my aunty is a nun!

 

[bayrodney]

Agreed Full Stop.

 

[Sand Rat]

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki

Originally posted by steelcult
Umm, Doc, according to GW they didnt make enough of a profit last year - it was only slight.

And now this thread has taken an ugly turn - disagree with someone\'s opinion and you are automatically a hater. Personally I\'m glad people like GW and the product they put out - I have stated that I agree with some of what has been stated before - but that GW minis or GW plastics are the end all be all of the hobby? Nope. Never will agree with that. I guess that makes me a hater. Well, so be it.

Don\'t take it personally. In this case hater is simply a reference to people with a negative outlook. Disliker just sounds silly.
And don\'t get me wrong I could care less what company people like or don\'t hmm maybe I should use more smileys to show what a jovial lad I truely am!lol:innocent:
I used to be an altar boy after all and my aunty is a nun!

Personal - didnt take it that way Doc - but that was the second \"Haters\" reference in a few posts -

 

[DrEvilmonki]

I hate people who say haters! They are just so hateful.

Actually I should choose my words more carefully; I know some people take this shit way to seriously (again not talking about you steelcult).

By the way hows those sand storms treating you - getting any painting done?

 

[Dragonsreach]

With all due respect Matt, I think that your are speaking from a point of having a vested interest in GW and their support of our hobby.

As Steelcult pointed out I have been involved in Wargaming and Modelling since the late 60\'s, before GW existed and yes they have added a lot to the wargaming community.

As an old man, in all terms, I found myself shaking my head in amusement at what was little more than a defensive rant on GW\'s behalf. I also disagree with a number of your statements primarily about paint, and the customer base.

Fistly: Paint I no longer use GW paints unless I am painting either for the studio or for my local store, that way I can demonstrate to the customers exactly what is being used in order that they can follow and try to copy if they wish. (It may surprise you to know that even in GW\'s studio there are more than their own brand of paint being used, by their own staff. )
The reason that I stopped using their paints is twofold; one the quality is no longer as good as it was when their supply was provided by, what is now Coat D\'arms. Two, The paint bottles still allow the paint dry out too fast for long term continued use.

Secondly; As for the customer base, I can give you a direct example. My local store has seen a 80% change of their customers since January. GW managers themselves expect a 75% change over of their customers Annually. So your point about continuity of their customers isn\'t really strong. It\'s only long termers like myself who are more painters and collectors who are really the vererans of GW\'s hobby.

And in regard to your point about the rules of D&D being more costly than GW\'s rules. I\'d like to point out that D&D is far more involved and dependant on Cerebral usage. I wonder how many errata D&D have had to publish over the years? Why? Because both my copies of WFB & 40K have several additional pages of printed errata inserted.

Oh and just to clear things up, I do like GW. They are not perfect and some of their marketing / sales processes strike me as being poor judgement of their customers. But I would seriously hate to see them collapse, which would be a detriment to us all.

 

[Sand Rat]

HIJACK ALERT!!!!!!

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
I hate people who say haters! They are just so hateful.

Actually I should choose my words more carefully; I know some people take this shit way to seriously (again not talking about you steelcult).

By the way hows those sand storms treating you - getting any painting done?

Actually should be able to get some Croc Games stuff posted sometime this week.

And we had two, count them two mudstorms yesterday - one of them complete with mudballs and hail at the same time.

I\'m waiting for the locusts and the frogs next. lol

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by Dragonsreach

Secondly; As for the customer base, I can give you a direct example. My local store has seen a 80% change of their customers since January. GW managers themselves expect a 75% change over of their customers Annually. So your point about continuity of their customers isn\'t really strong. It\'s only long termers like myself who are more painters and collectors who are really the vererans of GW\'s hobby.

Is it any real surprise that they have a high turn over of customers? In general first timers will be young and kids have a very short attention span. There is so much choice for their entertainment dollar and in general I would think Playstations would be seen as more of a socially acceptable choice to their peer group.

 

[DrEvilmonki]

Originally posted by steelcult

Originally posted by DrEvilmonki
I hate people who say haters! They are just so hateful.

Actually I should choose my words more carefully; I know some people take this shit way to seriously (again not talking about you steelcult).

By the way hows those sand storms treating you - getting any painting done?

Actually should be able to get some Croc Games stuff posted sometime this week.

And we had two, count them two mudstorms yesterday - one of them complete with mudballs and hail at the same time.

I\'m waiting for the locusts and the frogs next. lol

What the hell is a mudstorm????

And this isn\'t really a hijack, I just noticed the thread starting to look a bit loose so I thought I would pick at it.

 

[Sand Rat]

Rain during a sandstorm.

You get hit with little pellettes of mud, instead of water.

Lots and lots of fun.

 

[Dragonsreach]

Originally posted by steelcult
Rain during a sandstorm.

You get hit with little pellettes of mud, instead of water.

Lots and lots of fun.

The mental image of that is weird!

No wrestling going on during that then?
:innocent:

 

[Sand Rat]

Dear god no.

It was actually worse when it was hailing during the mudstorm - muddy and stinging.