A question/ poll/ me thinking out loud about games...

[Chrispy]

Okay, first off lemme just say that I am not a racist, I am just usually politically correct. With that said, I
just wanna know one thing: in Gamesworkshop games, as well as some others, where are the African Americans? Did
Emporer just forget about them or what? My best friend is Jamacian, and I know some times he get offended when I
say African American , and just says \"I\'m Carribean!\". I made a mini for him for mordhiem, and aside from some
catachans, there isn\'t that much of a group of minis to paint that would look 100% real. I know, I\'ve seen some great
dark skin jobs on this site, but those were either drow elves or they were on a face that just didn\'t look right....
Please lemme know what you think, and once agian (ala Jerry Maguire) I love black people!!
P.S, I live in El Paso, about 75% hispanic, I DO know what it\'s like to be a minority....
P.P.S. That last bit reminded me of a sketch comic: \"I saw a paper the other day, said New York was 70% minorities...
that\'s the way white people think, you could take one to South Africa and he would say \'Whoa Look at the minority!\'
Whatever

 

[Chrispy]

Did I say politically correct? I meant INcorrect...
\"I know that I\'ll never be politically correct, and I don\'t give a d@mn
about my lack of ettiqute...\" -Meatloaf

 

[Duende]

African-Imperial Figure

Well, just today I came across a marine apothecary that definately wasn\'t a caucasian by fastball24. And there\'s all the \"thugz\" minis done by haley.... They\'re out there, but it\'s true, they are a minority. Hopes this helps you feel better

 

[Lowrianne]

I don\'t paint for a particular game other the D&D3rd, but I noticed the prevelence of caucasian-esque skin tone.

Maybe it starts with the paint jars? In my GW paints you have elf flesh, pallid flesh, etc -- all caucasian tones. None of the jars have what I would call a natural skin tone for African-American (or in the old tongue, Black). I did mix a beautiful shade once, but I can\'t remember what colors I used. You can see it on my dancing girls pic. Okay, the rest of the paint job is pretty bad, but I love the skin tone.

So who do we bug for a jar of skin tone that works? We could then darken or lighten it as desired?

 

[Chern Ann]

>African-American (or in the old tongue, Black).

Surely not all black people are American ???

 

[Lowrianne]

>> In the old tongue, black.

No, they are not, which is why I really don\'t like the PC thing of African-American. Frankly, I can\'t keep up with the PC terms for anything anymore. I once suggested we just label everyone as \"pigmentarily enhanced,\" \"pigmentarily neutral\" or \"pigmentarily deprived\". That didn\'t go over well at all.

Anyway, my question is, what color mix can we do to get that lovely chocolatly brown skin tone. From there, people can add to make it dark chocolate or milk chocolate.

 

[Errex]

Well, GW makes a color called Dark Flesh, wich is a reddish brown that can be worked properly mixing it with some of the more regular skin tones for highlights.

:idea:

 

[Goodwinpaints]

ok, try this...

Basecoat - Vallejo Mahogany Brown (846)
Wash - Howard Hues Nubian
Highlight - Vallejo Mahogany lightened with Vallejo Light Brown (929)

By gradually increasing the amount of L Brown, a smooth highlight transition occurs that works quite nicely.

Deane P. Goodwin
http://minipainter.netfirms.com

 

[Lowrianne]

Ahhh, not to sound totally stupid, but can you translate that into GW paints? Its the only brand my local store has.

 

[Bent Brush]

Not intending to sound raciest either but, it has been my experience that very few non caucasians in my city, or any of the cities or towns I have played in, play miniature or roleplay games.

So in the interest of hitting their target audience I would say the game companies are producing what sells. Then there are the social / economic factors, it can be argued that the caucasian populace has more money to waste with gaming. In the US every year the news spouts about the racial income gap.

These could be just some of the reasons that, for the most part, you see predominantly caucasian paint jobs on the models.

What I thought was weird is in WH40K when it first came out the marines in the fluff were dark in complexion (see Warhammer 40,000 Compendium page 8 Melanochrome). But when the models were painted up they were not painted that way.

So it comes down to this. If you want a miniature painted after your nationality, skin color, hair, eye, etcetera, then do it. Do it really well a lot and over time it may become the norm.

 

[ZaPhOd]

I don\'t particularly wan tto get involved in this in any way, but when was the last time you picked up a mini made by a manufacturer from Namibia? Or Botswana? I lived in Souther Africa many moons ago and had to travel long distances to Johannesburg to by crummy old minis that were made, yes, in the USA.

 

[ZaPhOd]

I don\'t particularly wan tto get involved in this in any way, but when was the last time you picked up a mini made by a manufacturer from Namibia? Or Botswana? I lived in Souther Africa many moons ago and had to travel long distances to Johannesburg to by crummy old minis that were made, yes, in the USA.

 

[ZaPhOd]

Oops. I hope that didn\'t show up twice! I forgot to mention that the majority of manufacturers isn\'t just in the USA but Europe as well and the last time I checked, most people there are Caucasian as well....
Just a thought of course.

 

[vincegamer]

skin tone

About a decade ago I decided I would actually paint well. I bought some space marines, the booklet that came with them (now oop) and the \'eavy metal painting guide (also now oop) and I have a page out of \"Boy\'s Life\" magazine from 1983 describing how to paint minis. All three of them tell you how to paint flesh. All three of them basically mean white flesh.
Maybe the majority of gamers are white, but most of the people around me are not. I have worked at getting different skin tones. I find darker is easier (see my space marine captain) and I did some good native american skin a while back, though the pieces were stolen since. What I have not had any luck with is Asian skin tones. If anyone has done good ones, I\'d like to see them and know what you did. Thanks

 

[shortboy]

Maybe I\'m missing the point here(It wouldn\'t be the first time), but most of the minis I buy are either gray(plastic) or silver(metal). I would think you could paint them in any colors you wanted. I know most of the war game minis I play with cover areas like Vikings, Napolianic era, and the American civil War and the historical facts are that most involved in those conflicts were lighter skin colored.

 

[wightzombie]

i just dont think about it.....

to tell you the truth i just dont think about it.

in art ive always draw white guys with swords guns etc. mostly just drawing my own horrific visions in fanatsy worlds. when painting i just never think about it unless the character demands it like certain samauri arent probably all stark white boys. its not that im not diverse or racially preferable, but i just dont think too much in that area. ive seen people who are asian, black etc paint there armies with different skin colors probably because its more prominent to them and what there used to.

as for minis and companies with different skin colors this can stem from several things.

for GW the only black guys ive seen done by them have been the jungle imperial gaurd types, catachan? ive also seen some arabian and mongol type warriors in the imperial gaurd area also, with the horse guys with lances and the dessert impperial guard. maybe you see it far less in space marines because of helmets. not oonly that but most space marine chapters recruit from their home world as opposed to like dark angels who travel and recruit from anyone. maybe they would be more likely to have more of a color mix in thier army than others.

as for other companies there are several things to consider. ranges like celtos are about white boys mixing it up in england. for other fantasy ranges you have to take into account, in a medieval world setting, the creators of these worlds probably still stick black people into the \"savage uncivilised\" area therefore not developed enough except to see the rare case of a couple in a army. another way to think about it is would rascism exsist in the warhammer universe? probably.

really it just comes down to who owns the army and what respective color they are. usually they paint accordingly. admittidly outside of pasty white folks in europe and rednecked americans (me) not allot of people of color collect, paint, or wargame minis. this is probably due to cultural differences and where minis originated heavily (europe) which of course shot over to america with the colanization of the americas (canada, usa).

i think GW push into japan is great, not sure how profitable its been, and i think the usa will be very pivatol in getting blacks and mexicans into gaming as they become less and less minorities. also the military is great with getting minorities involved in gaming. this level of gaming as we know it has not been around very long and i thinnk as GW and other branch hard on the internet and to other countries we will see a rise in international gaming. who knows we might have a GD Japan soon!

and yes i dont give a damn about PC.

 

[Xavier]

Actually I think you all are putting too
much thought into this. GW is just trying to sell their products and paint their minis to look the best. Which is why most minis are bronzed and women are a bit lighter.
To paint them black would hid the detail of
the mini.
Incidently they have painted their minis black, mainly the imperial jungle warriros, those big buff guys,.. cause that fits the stereo type.

If GW was racist and wanted to paint their modles to represnt cacasions from Europe they can just just Skull white. However white like black doesn\'t give you the rich color depth that bronze flesh gives you.

Any how those are my two cents.

Xavier

 

[Dragonsreach]

I agree that there are not enough miniatures depicting the diversity of our world, and there are probably many socialogical reasons why. I can define clearly, a couple.

1: Cultural variances affect the way miniatures are viewed. Islam regards the depiction of the Human (or Animal ) forms in picture or sculpture as an affront to the teachings of Mohammed.

2: In all the years of visiting GW stores I have only seen a handful of black or asian people in them. Why? because RPG\'s wargames are stereotyped as a White Middle Class pastime. Therefore the target demographics are aimed at that stereotype.

I know that there are miniatures available which are thankfully non-caucasian. Historex agents supply alternate heads to 54mm figures from the WWII and Veitnam war eras which are sculpted to be Black.

If you want to try to paint Black/Brown/whatever, skin types start looking at movies: Michael Duncan Clarke in \"The Green Mile\" has a wonderful face to paint.
Ditto: James Earl Jones, Samuel L Jackson and many many others. (Halle Berry!!)

We live in a diverse world, Black, Brown White, Yellow, Red, Blonde, Brunette & Redhead. One thing we are all missing is that these are labels. We are all HUMAN BEINGS.

Paint to prove the point!.

 

[Impernouncable]

Well... the simple answer is actually that it is far easier to sculpt something totally fantastic (orcs, goblins, elves, etc.) than it is to sculpt a convincing human likeness. When you do begin to sculpt the human form it is easier to stick with those forms you know. My guess would be that most of the sculpters working in the miniatures market today are white. GW demands a lot of detail for their scifi figures usually and IMO sculpters will sacrifice ethnic diversity to the deadline first.
That being said there are a good number of figures being produced today that do represent stereotypical black features, in some case simplifying them to characatures. Bobby Jackson\'s Thugz come to mind (I like to call them Blacksploitation figures) as do Assassin Miniatures pygmies. On the more serious side Copplestone, Foundry, and Perry all produce excellent lines of historical figures for African Colonial wars.

 

[Chrispy]

For the record, the current PC term to refer to almost all ethnicities is \"People of Color\". But if you\'re still in a medival character say \"Painted\" ala Robin Hood..