A summary of colour and light

[Starks333]

its as simple as this wheel...

thats where experimenting comes in...obviously the basics of opposites to shade....the reason? when mixing opposites on THIS wheel they will shade towards a neutral grey...and if done right you can achieve a black(one must be a transparent layer however)

which means your colour will maintain its colour...the old wheel actually affects your colours by browning them and didnt necessarily darken, but changed the actual colour

its why you\'d hear people say compliments to shade usually, sometimes it doesnt work...well thats why, because it was incorrect


cyan-red
blue-yellow
magenta-green

are compliments

-warm and cold are obvious
-bright is the top half of the circle...dark is the bottom half, so highlight by mixing in the brighter half, shade by mixing in the darker, exceptions being compliments
-colour is affected by its surroundings, and in turn the colours around it...a blue will look different next to orange than to purple
-saturation affects intensity aka brightness..brightness and its effects are shown below


enjoy

the next issue is knowing that colour is NOT just colour, and is also value...eahc colour has its own value...and because of this colour shading creates more contrast because its LESS subtle than using the value of ONE colour

this is an example of the difference between the old colour wheel and the new one...i adjusted the blue to a less true blue, to try and align it more towards the opposite of orange

and here it shows why highlighting up so bright and zenithal lighting draws focus to your intended area as well as saturation of colour(the red for example)
(this photo was yanked form haeckel & jaeckels site and then i greyscaled it)

here is how you can tell how your eye works...does it always flow towards the brightest? your eye reads colour/light like it does words, in a specific fashion

so now go back up to the colours turned black and white, and now you should understand why certain colours should be in highlights or near...near the mid level, or in towards shadows

This is the science of colour and light and WHY art is not 100% opinion...and why an artist can be good or bad with colour

if you need more explained feel free to post and ask! i dont know everything but i have studied this stuff in many ways for the past 2 years!

Alex

 

[DaN]

... eh ???



I\'m tired. And stupid

 

[freakinacage]

Originally posted by Starks333


cyan-red
blue-yellow
magenta-green

are compliments

-warm and cold are obvious

handy little post, maybe post it as an article. a couple of things though:

no one ever writes this stuff for people wh are colour blind like myself (i\'m not having a go, i wouldn\'t if i were you!). any chance you could give a key to the different colours (just rough ranges would help). some i can tell, some i can\'t

why are 1,7,13,19,25,31 highlighed?

ooh, also on the second pic down, 3rd line, there are 3 colours mentioned but only 2 blobs of colour..

 

[Fizl]

Think you either need to check your eyes again or adjust your monitor, on the second pic there are 3 blobs on each row.

Maybe you can\'t see the furthest one as it is quite pale against a white background?

Shaz

 

[Starks333]

these are just super rough estimates,

1: yellow (bad moon or sunburst or P3 cygnar yellow)
7:red (blood red or P3 khador red)
13:magenta (warlock purple maybe)
19:blue(or indigo) (regal blue is close, maybe a bit more purple needed, its never the same colour each bottle i get so i cant tell)
25:cyan (none in GW, old electric blue would of been very close)
31:green (snot greenish)

its easier to find the opposites that way because the highlighted numbers are opposites


now after discussion with some people...this wheel doesnt mean dont ever mix in other ways again, it just allows you to find ways to mix neutral tones(greys) or create neutral darks (by using transparent layers of dyes/inks, not sure how it works with acrylics though) while allowing you to do the rest....some people like the browned tones, i hate them for some things

i have found colour using this wheel to be much more i donno beautiful and alive i guess

 

[freakinacage]

thanks, and yes, i can see that 3rd colour now. i guess i wasn\'t looking hard enough

 

[Starks333]

ok so basicly the inks/dyes with acrylics work in the same manor

inks dyes absorb light and allow specific light out...so when you combine the compliments, they essentially create a \"black\"..but ONLY when applied in layers over each other

you cant actually physically mix them to get a black

so basicly you can create natural, colourful dark neutral shades by using and controlling dyes/inks

because i dont have many inks i mixed a bit of turqoise ink, fuschia or wild rose and green...and then applied a green/fuschia/wild rose mix...obviously i could get more accurate results if i had more accurate inks to work with

(yes the ink is kinda sloppy right now, it is a pain to work with when you deal with cracks)

 

[Shawn R. L.]

From having done a lot of painting in a lot of different modes I know that using odd shadow/highlight colors is possible. It\'s very much a \'seat of the pants\' type of thing to get it to work...........but it is possible to get it to work. The result can be very intense and will kind of \'tickle\' the eye/brain. The brain is kind of going \'this is working but things just don\'t normally look this way\'. Hard to get but if you can do it, it is cool.

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Starks333
its as simple as this wheel...

I\'m afraid it\'s not.

Originally posted by Starks333
thats where experimenting comes in...obviously the basics of opposites to shade....the reason? when mixing opposites on THIS wheel they will shade towards a neutral grey...

No they won\'t, it\'s more complex than he makes it out to be (see more below).

Originally posted by Starks333
which means your colour will maintain its colour...

Which means the colour will maintain it\'s hue.

Originally posted by Starks333
cyan-red
blue-yellow
magenta-green

are compliments

They\'re visual complements.

Visual complements and mixing complements are frequently not the same thing and no colour system should ignore this fact or gloss over it. One of a number of major points of contention with the author was (and still is as far as I know) his refusal to acknowledge this simple fact, which 10 seconds on the palette can confirm.

Originally posted by Starks333
the next issue is knowing that colour is NOT just colour, and is also value...

That\'s misleading if one uses colour terminology properly; colour is inherently about value since it\'s one of the three colour dimensions* and therefore can\'t really be considered as separate.

*Another major flaw in the so-called Real Color Wheel: it\'s 2D. All full colour models should make reference to the three colour dimensions - hue, value and chroma (or equivalent terms) - and hence the colour model itself can\'t be 2D and describe colour properly. Any two-dimensional model is ignoring or leaving something out.

Originally posted by freakinacage
why are 1,7,13,19,25,31 highlighed?

The positions of the primaries and secondaries:
Yellow at top, facing Blue at 6 o\'clock;
7 is Red, 25 is Cyan;
13 is Magenta, 31 is Green.

Einion

 

[Starks333]

Originally posted by Starks333
cyan-red
blue-yellow
magenta-green

are compliments

They\'re visual complements.

Visual complements and mixing complements are frequently not the same thing and no colour system should ignore this fact or gloss over it. One of a number of major points of contention with the author was (and still is as far as I know) his refusal to acknowledge this simple fact, which 10 seconds on the palette can confirm.
[/quote]

feel free to explain what you mean

ive mixed the neutral greys...and ive created the neutral blacks


while you do so i will go through davinci\'s notebooks a bit more

 

[Einion]

Originally posted by Starks333
feel free to explain what you mean

ive mixed the neutral greys...and ive created the neutral blacks

First I\'ll just touch on the difference between visual complements and mixing complements for anyone that might not know what these are.

Visual complements are two hues that are diametrically opposed on a full colour wheel (the wheel must contain both cyan and magenta).

Mixing complements are simply any two paints that mix to neutral.

The basic point the author glosses over is that paints vary. Not all Cyan-hued paints will mix neutrals with another paint that\'s Red in hue even if they appear to be exactly the same colour. What\'s more sometimes two examples of the same pigment can be different enough that they don\'t mix exactly alike.

This is because mixing behaviour is as much about pigment interaction as about colour in the abstract. As I say above, this can be confirmed with about 10 seconds of mixing - you only need to find a single exception to disprove his thesis. I\'ve mention before a few times when the subject has come up: many pairs of paints whose positions on the colour wheel are not directly across from each other mix good-to-perfect neutrals.

What he did, but won\'t acknowledge, is cherry-pick the paints so that they worked. I asked him straight out if he made the claim that if John Doe bought his wheel, could accurately figure out what the hue of a given red was, would it work in place of the red he uses in that position. Guess what his answer was. Only I know this doesn\'t work because I tried it.

Incidentally, which Blue and Yellow mix to a perfect neutral?

Originally posted by Starks333
while you do so i will go through davinci\'s notebooks a bit more

He doesn\'t really cover primary/secondary mixing far as I remember.

Einion

 

[Starks333]

The basic point the author glosses over is that paints vary. Not all Cyan-hued paints will mix neutrals with another paint that\'s Red in hue even if they appear to be exactly the same colour. What\'s more sometimes two examples of the same pigment can be different enough that they don\'t mix exactly alike.

ahhhh ok now i get what you mean, i agree with this(he does as well, if you look into certain areas he mentions which paints/brands he has found to be most accurate)

This is because mixing behaviour is as much about pigment interaction as about colour in the abstract. As I say above, this can be confirmed with about 10 seconds of mixing - you only need to find a single exception to disprove his thesis. I\'ve mention before a few times when the subject has come up: many pairs of paints whose positions on the colour wheel are not directly across from each other mix good-to-perfect neutrals.

i do agree here, this is where the experimentation part comes in...this wheel is a tool, and obviously cant take into account every single brand/mixture of paint, but in theory it is true

i dont support how he may advertise his wheel...i simply support the concepts

What he did, but won\'t acknowledge, is cherry-pick the paints so that they worked. I asked him straight out if he made the claim that if John Doe bought his wheel, could accurately figure out what the hue of a given red was, would it work in place of the red he uses in that position. Guess what his answer was. Only I know this doesn\'t work because I tried it.

mixing neutrals will take experimentation to find the right colours, naturally, as it does to mix anything else

mixing neutral darks does however require one transparent layer(if not two) using his theories, so inks basicly

i havent been able to try them all out yet because i dont have enough coloured inks, but the few attempts i have made have turned out quite nicely

Incidentally, which Blue and Yellow mix to a perfect neutral?

a certain purple/blue mix with yellow comes quite close(the blue on the coluor wheel at the bottom is actually a more indigo colour which is purple/blue)

i used sunburst yellow, p3 beaten purple and cygnar blue base as a quick attempt and got a grey quite quickly

i was following the basic principles of the wheel(again i am not saying you have to use all his ideas and theories, but instead the basic principles)

He doesn\'t really cover primary/secondary mixing far as I remember.

Einion

nope, but he covers other things i was interested in checking out

most notably the lighting, which his work is clearly superior for