Additives, layering, confused, (also primer)

[Aeolus]

I\'ve only just recently started using additives, after reading the \'Let it Flow\' article on reapermini.com and the article on additives at brushthralls. I\'m shying away from even using a retarder at all, as all the ones I\'ve tried seem to make the paint too glossy, and I don\'t even wet-blend anyway (making me a layerer). The problem is, I can\'t seem to get my paint to the consistency I need. My understanding is (having never had any painting lessons in person, only from online tutorials) that when layering, you want the paint to be translucent, you want to not be able to see where one color ends and the other begins, and that by the time you are finished a brush stroke, the top should already be dry.
I can only get to the point where the transitions between different colors are painfully obvious, or to the point where the paint becomes tinted water that re-moistens
my base coat and tears holes in it.

I\'ve been working with combinations of Liquitex Flow-aid, distilled water, and Vallejo glaze medium.

Theres just too many different things too put in my paint! Help?

Oh, also my base coats (and any others for that matter) have been rubbing off, I\'m wondering if the reason for this is that the figures are been \'primed\' with matte spray paint (which is not primer) as opposed to real primer (which is). Yeah, I know that\'s bad, but is it really what\'s causing this? I\'ve been doing it for a while, now and I don\'t think I\'ve had any problems, but then again, I haven\'t done any painting in a few months (I could have had problems and just forgot) and I only have a single completed figure to my credit, despite \'painting\' for six years:redface:

 

[GreenOne]

Okay, my guess is you got too much going on...
first, thin your paints doesn\'t mean to make colored water out of it, though it can hardly be too thin, the trick is only to make sure you dispose a single layer of pigment, so there is no buildups.. shading/highlighting is not done whit transluscent paint but with semi-transluscent paint, if you remove excess paint/water from the tip, a single stroke should leave a 25-50% opaque layer which get really subtle upon drying and builds up after three or four passages.. It\'s hard to really translate in words.. the best thing is too experiment until you find a consistency that you are comfortable with.
Not too thin too start with, then you get thinner as you get a grip on things and wish to make even more subtle transistion.
I lost a lot of time messing with consistency until I realised that a lot of painters say thin your paints like it\'s an absolute, but without feeling the brush/paint/mini it won\'t help much... Often they just mean you need more brush control ( Which goes far more than just neatness.), and there is no tutorial for that..
Better transistion for layering guys can be helped with other things too, like glazing ( With, this time, transluscent paints.) and using more middle tones.

All those fancy product should come later, for improving your solutions, right now they just seem to complicate things for you.

As for primer, I used spray paint for a few minis, and it worked fine, but there is just no way to prevent the edges from losing paint, exept by not touching painted parts of the mini.. until you get it varnished anyway.

 

[Ritual]

Originally posted by Aeolus
Theres just too many different things too put in my paint! Help?

I don\'t put anything in my paint except water and it works like a charm!

 

[matty1001]

Yep, just pure water here aswell. Plus all that crap makes the paint taste funny!

 

[DaN]

As for rubbing paint off - primer definately helps keep the basecoat on, but there are a few more ways you can help prevent that:

1> Yes - try not to touch the painted areas, this can be done in a few ways...

a> Attach the figure to a something you can hold whilst you paint rather than trying to hold by the base - such as pinning the feet to something like a cork.

b> Use disposable latex/vinyl gloves - although this lessens your sensitivity and I wouldn\'t recommend it if you are going to do detail work such as lettering etc

2> Simply allow more time for the paint to dry - remember that the paint dries outside-inwards... That is - the outermost layer of molecules that have contact with the air will dry before the layers below.
Once the paint is dry it also shrinks a little, giving it a firmer grip on the surface.

3> Use a softer-bristled brush/ brush lightly!

 

[residentalien]

Anyone use Model Master\'s/Testor\'s acrylic paint thinner in the squueze bottle. I am using it and seems to work fine but wanted other opinions.

 

[Arkzein]

I was pretty new to all these soon after finding CMON myself as well, as can be said for a lot of things. *laughs*

Mostly been said here already, only tip I can add, being a mini handler myself (ie holding a mini with my hands rather than in a cork or some contraption) is that after finishing an area you can give the mini a quick spray of testors dullcoat to protect it as you handle it further. Typically I\'ll do this 2/3 times on a mini as I finish the large colour blocks and then again the final sealing after the detail work.

Doesn\'t really help with each layer peeling though, never had that problem and would be tempted to say it sounds like the primer. Are you washing your minis before painting as well? Perhaps the mix your are using? I Don\'t really go over 20/25% flow improver to water or the paint seems to act odd. (separating, foaming/bubbles etc.).

(After experimentation I went for 20% Flow improver, 10% extender, 70% water but honestly I\'m not sure if it made much of a different over water. Makes me feel better though )

 

[matty1001]

Also stuff like Tamiya thinner, when not diluted with a touch of water can peel off oler layers of paint. I think its due to the alcohol content or something.

 

[Highbulp Billy]

I\'ve just started using Tamiya thinner and it\'s workingnquite well. Just a small amount needed to make a big difference. I\'ve not had any problems with peeling (yet) but I\'m using brush on primer from Miniature Paints now which probably helps too.