Agh! Acrylic retarder seems impossible to use!

I

Ikaponthus

New member
I\'ve been experimenting with this stuff (bought from an art store) for the last few days and so far it seems like just a big waste of money.

The things is, once I\'ve put the retarder in the paint I can paint it onto the mini perfectly smoothly. But as soon as that paint comes into contact with other paint that\'s been treated with retarder it just turns into an ugly, watery mess.

This even happens when the paint is so thick (dryed) that I have to scoop it of the palette using the brush as a spoon. As soon as it hits the mini where other paint is it just goes all watery and unsusable.

Obviously this is making it IMPOSSIBLE for me to blend. As when I try and blend the paint together (using the wet-paint technique) it actually just wipes the paint off, leaving a watery mess behind that you can see the undercoat through.

THe thing is if I\'m just painting straight onto the undercoated mini it goes on perfectly smoothly and fine, like slightly thinned paint. It\'s when it contacts other paint that\'s been treated with the retarder that I get problems.

Any tips or advice much appreciated!

Also, I have experimented with different amounts of retarder, from 50/50 to just the smallest amount. When I use little bits this still happens and I have the added problem of the paint drying out too fast.

thanks.
 
Valander

Valander

Member
Hm. There\'s a few reasons why this could be happening. First, though, what kind of retarder are you using, and with what paints? It\'s possible that you may have some kind of incompatibility going on (haven\'t really heard of that happening, but you never know).

In my experience, my paints only need just a touch of retarder to work out. Now, I don\'t do wet blending too often (I usually do tweening*), but my usual mix up is something like this: 1 part paint, 1-2 parts magic wash (12.5% Future Floor polish, 12.5% Liquitex retarder liquid, 75% distilled water). I use Vallejo Model Colors, and this mix seems to work for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------
* Just had to insert that word into this post. ;) Those of you that know me, know why. If you\'re not sure what the heck this \"tweening\" thing is, I\'m sure you can find some other posts by me rambling on about it. lol
 
I

Ikaponthus

New member
What\'s tweening?

I\'ve looked but I can\'t find a search function for this particular forum.

I usually blend with progressive transparent (in other words, very thin) layers until I get the desired gradient.

Would like to hear what tweening is if you have the time...
 
Valander

Valander

Member
You asked for it...

The search function is a bit wonky, and hard to find. It\'s up at the top, right next to the FAQ and Member List links.

But, I won\'t make you go searching! No, I will go on babbling about my favorite technique.... lol

Tweening is by no means an original technique to me. I basically stole the technique from Arkaal and a few others, but was one of the first few to start calling it by the funky name. (I think I saw someone else use it once in the English Confrontation Forums, but I haven\'t been able to access that site for a while now :( ).

Anyway, Juame Ortiz wrote an absolutely fantastic article that describes the process over at Planet Figure. You can grab it here: http://www.planetfigure.com/articles/jaume_face_eng.pdf

In the most general terms, it\'s like this. Between each step, you should let the paint dry completely, or else it\'s a bit harder to work with. Also, using a wet pallete is really essential, since you will need to come back to your colors a few times throughout the process.

1. Paint your mid-tone color.
2. Block in your first shadow color. Don\'t worry about getting even transitions right now, you\'re just trying to get your main color spots down.
3. Block in your second shadow color.
4. Block in your first highlight color.
5. Block in your second highlight color.
6. Add a drop of glaze medium or a couple of drops of water/magic wash/whatever to your paints as they are on the wet pallet. Using very thin, mostly transparent paint, you want to smooth out the transitions.
6A: Brush a line of your midtone color so that it covers the midtone areas and 50% of the first shadow and first highlight area.
6B: Now, grab your first shadow color, and brush it so that it covers the first shadow area, and 25% or so of the midtone area and 50% of the second shadow color.
6C: Keep iterating through your colors, brushing on the lines between your original, blocked-in colors. As you work with this very transparent paint, the lines between the colors will start to fade out, and you\'ll be left with a much smoother transition.

Of course, you can get even better effects by using more colors (like 3 shadows, midtone, and 3 highlights or more), but think of 5 as the bare minimum to tween.

I will eventually get some photos taken of this technique in process and post an article on it, but that may be a while as I\'m doing my capstone project for my Computer Science degree this quarter...

Hope that helps!
 
I

Ikaponthus

New member
Thanks

Thanks, sounds interesting.

Actually it\'s pretty much what I do already! Well, sort of. My blending has no rhyme or rhythm to it. If I find that there is an obvious jump in gradient I apply a transparent film over the line to smooth it out.

But I\'m hardly an expert at any of it! :)
 
K

Klute

New member
Back to the retarder and not that bloody tweening;)

Sounds to me like you might have the gel form of retarder.That will make your paint like oils.
I very rarely use retarder cos I paint that thin but if I do its the tiniest amount.
 
T

Trevor

Brushlicker and Freak!
Odd.

Is the previous layer totally dry? Try putting it under a lamp for a while to dry it off.

Other than that, get the vallejo glaze medium, works wonders, in a small amount its a retarder, in greater amounts it turns paints into washes and it makes inks flow into the recesses, simply great stuff.
 
Valander

Valander

Member
I\'ll third the vote for using Vallejo Glaze Medium. Great stuff to use as a slight retarder.

And (just for Klute :D ) it works great for tweening!
 
Shawn R. L.

Shawn R. L.

New member
One other option is to use a type of paint called \'alykids\'. They are a quick drying oil paint. You get the best of oil paints-incredible blending and a relatively quick drying time-12-24 hours.
 
D

donga666

Guest
Originally posted by Trevor
See Spacemunkie agrees*, vallejo glaze medium. :D


* even if he didn\'t read my post ;)
Click to expand...

Mr Munkie can be a git! I have been playing with a couple of excellent media.

i. Vallejo Matt medium from the Model colour range. It is very very good, more for use with washes. But if you are having trouble with other media it is great- Recommend highly, VERY matt once dry.

ii. Windsor & Newton Acrylic Flow improver, got some on this Saturday and Ive been experimenting with it (with GW & Vallejo) and it is GREAT!!!!! It has a slight retardant use, it slows the drying but not as much as a full retarder. But it makes the flow of paints excellent and you loose very little colour intensity so you can Tween, Layer, Feather or Wet-blend untill the cows come home!!

It is quite expensive, 4.30 GBP wich is about $7.50 (USD) , 7.00 Euro. But the bottle I have got will last me MONTHS!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back To Top
Top