Ahh yes, Al gore
- Thread starter Sand Rat
- Start date
Well we can\'t destroy the planet, just make it really unlivable for a long time. By then some other species will have come along and evolved to take our place. If the human race was to die out tomorrow, in a million years, there wouldn\'t be much to show that we were here.
But i am all in favour of protecting the planet while we can. I just believe that the companies who have been polluting like crazy for the last 60 years should bear the brunt of costs. Petrochemical companies especially.
But i am all in favour of protecting the planet while we can. I just believe that the companies who have been polluting like crazy for the last 60 years should bear the brunt of costs. Petrochemical companies especially.
Legacy Account
Active member
It\'s not though is it? It\'s just an excuse to ignore what\'s going on around us.
Mass extinction happens, sure. They\'re caused by major disruptions in ecosystems. Until now these have been naturally occuring events, but we\'ve done a great job of destroying and polluting the living space of hundreds of thousands of species. That\'s before you even consider global warming. There\'s just no denying the link between the rate at which species are becoming extinct and human industrialisation.
You just like playing devil\'s advocate!
airhead
Coffin Dodger / Keymaster
And how does he propose we get this green energy? Wind & solar won\'t be enough without a major breakthrough in effeciency or startup costs.
Most of our electricity is from fossil fuels - thanks to the environmentalist that won\'t let us have nuclear power.
Progress? We\'ve made some here. Lake Erie hasn\'t caught fire in a couple of decades. Our lakes and rivers are actually cleaner now than they were in the 60\'s.
Acid rain must not be an issue anymore. You never hear about it, only global warming.
The last ice age was when the mammoth roamed the earth. It has been warming since then. Are we helping it? Mabye. Can we reverse it? Probably not.
Interesting reading here that says throughout most of Earth\'s history, there have been no polar caps. But I trust Wiki about as much as I can toss it.
mattsterbenz
New member
There was actually a different global ice age, before most of the dinosaurs were around (I think it was about 400 million years ago, could be wrong though). Nearly killed every living thing on the planet. Caused by the locations of the continents (all together near the south pole) not allowing the oceans to circulate different temperatures of water properly.
Earth is a powerful thing. Are humans affecting the climate? Probably, but more along the lines of a \"drop in the bucket\".
@ Avelorn: I think the video has significance. I was mostly amazed by the woman\'s story, shocked that heroes such as her do not get more recognition (as I and many other people were not even aware of her), and confused that Al Gore would win over her. I\'m not trying to use her as a \"bat\".
Of course Gore has made an impact, whether people believe his theory or not. He does have good intentions after all. However I find that his work is all just theory, he didn\'t actually do anything to help people. He made a documentary and gives the same speech over and over again. Might as well give the award to Michael Moore.
While I don\'t blame Gore for getting the award, I am simply confused with the people who voted for him.
-Matt
Earth is a powerful thing. Are humans affecting the climate? Probably, but more along the lines of a \"drop in the bucket\".
@ Avelorn: I think the video has significance. I was mostly amazed by the woman\'s story, shocked that heroes such as her do not get more recognition (as I and many other people were not even aware of her), and confused that Al Gore would win over her. I\'m not trying to use her as a \"bat\".
Of course Gore has made an impact, whether people believe his theory or not. He does have good intentions after all. However I find that his work is all just theory, he didn\'t actually do anything to help people. He made a documentary and gives the same speech over and over again. Might as well give the award to Michael Moore.
While I don\'t blame Gore for getting the award, I am simply confused with the people who voted for him.
-Matt
AHHHHH *brain explosm*
AL GORE\'S \"theory\"!!??
the theory was around long before Al Gore decided to make a movie about it and open up the entire scientific theory for discrediting by people with some sort of vendetta against a dude they\'ve never met.
It\'s a SCIENTIFIC theory. Look it up.
it\'s very different from the meaning of \"theory\" that\'s bandied around the streets and even university faculties other than hard science.
....talk about politics....
I accept the findings of the vast majority of scientists in the world, who are following the same scientific method that brought us such \"theories\" as the theory of gravity, cell theory etc.
sorry guys, I haven\'t painted a mini in a while now but I still love lurkin on the forums.
p.s. Matt, I like your oil paintings. Are you going to art school?
Are you on the Concept Art forums?
Roger Bunting
New member
I don\'t believe in the theory of gravity.
While practicing birth control and cutting down our population...
The theory of Global Warming is actually quite old. Over a hundred years in fact.
Fire and Ice
Unfortunately, it gets tossed around with Global Cooling every few decades or so.
Elly3438
Member
I am not as forgiving of the human race as most people... they have the capability to do good, but mostly just expand and destroy... Agent Smith from the Matrix describes it perfectly, the human race is a virus, and it will completely populate the world and use all of its resources until theres nothing left.
I agree about Gore, if he is taking the lead in the movement, he needs to make sure he is walking the walk, otherwise people will go to the other extreme and say \"its all a bunch of crap, Ill still drive my gas guzzling SUV 80mph on the expressway and chomp garbage from McDs, and toss the garbage out the window...\" Gore needs to be the icon for everyone to look up to if he is going to take that spot, to motivate the masses to do something...
There are ways to change, unfortunately most people can\'t afford it, and without any kind of help, they will still use their old refrigerators, old lighting systems, old crappy cars, etc etc... but thats a touchy subject, and a hard one to think about, if youd really want the government to come in and help (control) people in this matter, or do something like start fitting homes with some sort of solar energy hookup, cause then the government is meddling in your business... big brother eh?
/ramble off
lollollol
btw Jah sounds like you got a great lifestyle and diet, I haven\'t eaten meat in 9 years, and it\'s mainly for health reasons, but the side benefits are huge. Cruelty to the animals, the polluting of water supplies, the chopping of rainforests for farms to feed the animals people will eat... if people would consume normally in the US, and have \"normal\" portion sizes with their meals every day, wed have a huge surplus of food~~
I agree about Gore, if he is taking the lead in the movement, he needs to make sure he is walking the walk, otherwise people will go to the other extreme and say \"its all a bunch of crap, Ill still drive my gas guzzling SUV 80mph on the expressway and chomp garbage from McDs, and toss the garbage out the window...\" Gore needs to be the icon for everyone to look up to if he is going to take that spot, to motivate the masses to do something...
There are ways to change, unfortunately most people can\'t afford it, and without any kind of help, they will still use their old refrigerators, old lighting systems, old crappy cars, etc etc... but thats a touchy subject, and a hard one to think about, if youd really want the government to come in and help (control) people in this matter, or do something like start fitting homes with some sort of solar energy hookup, cause then the government is meddling in your business... big brother eh?
/ramble off
lollollol
btw Jah sounds like you got a great lifestyle and diet, I haven\'t eaten meat in 9 years, and it\'s mainly for health reasons, but the side benefits are huge. Cruelty to the animals, the polluting of water supplies, the chopping of rainforests for farms to feed the animals people will eat... if people would consume normally in the US, and have \"normal\" portion sizes with their meals every day, wed have a huge surplus of food~~
Shawn R. L.
New member
Was a real epiphony for me as to how little I actually NEEDED to get by. I ate a \'normal\' diet and ended up at 300 lbs. It just baffled me. I kept telling the doc. that I don\'t eat that much. And compared to others I didn\'t. I kept cutting back and cutting back on the volume and now eat like a bird and no, I\'m not starving all the time...............-95 pounds later I\'m still feeling good.
Elly3438
Member
Shawn - I eat a decent amount of food, just in smaller amounts 5-6 times a day. What I meant by \"normal\" is the correct size, people dont realize that a big steak is way too much for the body to handle at once, it puts a strain on the system, but it\'s considered \"normal.\" A normal amount would be a small piece, with lots of vegetables and some sweet potatoes or something~ I mainly eat vegetables and fruits, its easy to lose weight on that! (unless yer chompin lots of avocados and nuts hehe) I dont eat like a bird, but people tell me I eat like a rabbit LOL
BTW congrats on the weight loss, keep it up my friend!
BTW congrats on the weight loss, keep it up my friend!
Well, while were all at each other\'s throats I might as well jump in.
First off, Al gore is a sad excuse for a human being. Hes a hypocrite that cares more about press time than any sort of public issue. And, in my personal opinion, he can take his Yassir Arafat peace prize and go to hell. (forgive my directness, IMHO hypocrites are the lowest form of human being). As an aside, have any of y\'all seen that \"planet green\" channel that came out recently (well neither have I, but I saw a commercial for it on the history channel and it looked to be about the stupidest thing to grace the idiot box in quite a while.)
On the actual issue, The earth has been warming a cooling for millions of years, in fact, the antarctic was almost tropical a one point in the earth\'s history. Even so, this type of climate change hysteria isn\'t uncommon, rewind 30 years and you\'d find a bunch of scientists warning the world about imminent global cooling. Also, little known fact, the hottest year on record in the U.S. was 1934, this fact is still hotly debated, but whats not debated is that there were years in the 1920, 1930, and 1950s that are as hot or hotter than the present. So I\'m confused as to why we\'re suddenly living in unbelievable hot conditions that will cause the death of all life on earth in the next decades. Alternatively, maybe God is warming the earth to give us longer growing seasons so that we can cope with the ever increasing population, just a thought.
On pollution, my mom works for Veolia Environmental as a plant manager, and guess what they do, its a multi national corporation that, among other things, takes the waste companies create and make it into clean burning fuel (or simply incinerate it so it doesn\'t end up at a landfill). They do several jobs ranging from taking care of laboratory waste to disposing of military issue nerve gas.
Apart from seeing how American industry cleans up after itself, the fact that my mom works in the hazardous waste industry also means I know all about environmental regulations. Have any of y\'all environmentalists heard of the clean air and water acts and they\'re respective amendments. Well, in short, it means that if you were to go out and breath the air coming out of the emission stacks, it would be cleaner than the air than your breathing now (note, the hazardous waste industry is more heavily regulated than most, but that statement hold true for most industry in the U.S.). Theres also such things as OSHA, which mostly applies to workers safety, but also puts some limits on emissions (in the interest of on site worker safety). So, while Al gore preaches, the rest of us get things done.
However, according to Gore, I\'m just an evil Conservation, so I obviously drown kittens in toxic factory run off and pray to big business gods for acid rain while driving around my SUV and running the thermostat at 60 degrees in the summer. In all actuality, I don\'t own a car, and my carbon \"footprint\" is next to non existent, (that probably won\'t hold for long, Bradleys only get about half a mile to a gallon, but at least ill be car pulling with 8 other guys).
Also, I figure terrorists with a WMD will end the world a whole lot faster than carbon emissions, so for now I\'m joining the USMC, while leaving global warming to the, ahem, experts.
However, just cause I think Global warming is a load of BS doesn\'t mean I think we should all drive SUVs and belch toxic gas into the air. Personally, I\'m a big proponent of clean coal burning and Nuclear power for the immediate future, with eventual replacement by renewable resources in the later future.
Personally, I think Nuclear power is the way to go, not only does it release no emissions into the air, it can use the nuclear material from decommissioned nuclear weapons as fuel, so that way the nuclear waste can at least be put to good use, and if their safe enough to put on military ships and submarines, I figure there good enough for civilian power grids (And for those of you who want to throw Chernobyl at me, that was an isolated incident caused shoddy communist quality control. and name me one person that died in the Three mile island incident or because any other nuclear radiation leak). Even so, we\'ve still got people driving cars from the 20s, so oil will not go away even if we pass laws requiring all new car run on hydrogen or ethanol. So, we need (at least in the U.S.) to stop relying on the middle east and drill in Anwr and the gulf. We also need newer, cleaner, refineries so that we can make gas in a cleaner fashion. Finally, for those of you who like ethanol, all of the extra fertilizer that farmers are using because of increased production is running into the Mississippi River and destroying the Brackish water ecosystems (which is far rarer than any polar bear habitat), which, while destroying an increasingly rare and unique ecosystem, is also hurting the Louisiana seafood industry (and me, being a shrimp lover as well as a Cajun, don\'t like that at all.)
Alright, I\'m done, rant over, feel free to crucify me now.
First off, Al gore is a sad excuse for a human being. Hes a hypocrite that cares more about press time than any sort of public issue. And, in my personal opinion, he can take his Yassir Arafat peace prize and go to hell. (forgive my directness, IMHO hypocrites are the lowest form of human being). As an aside, have any of y\'all seen that \"planet green\" channel that came out recently (well neither have I, but I saw a commercial for it on the history channel and it looked to be about the stupidest thing to grace the idiot box in quite a while.)
On the actual issue, The earth has been warming a cooling for millions of years, in fact, the antarctic was almost tropical a one point in the earth\'s history. Even so, this type of climate change hysteria isn\'t uncommon, rewind 30 years and you\'d find a bunch of scientists warning the world about imminent global cooling. Also, little known fact, the hottest year on record in the U.S. was 1934, this fact is still hotly debated, but whats not debated is that there were years in the 1920, 1930, and 1950s that are as hot or hotter than the present. So I\'m confused as to why we\'re suddenly living in unbelievable hot conditions that will cause the death of all life on earth in the next decades. Alternatively, maybe God is warming the earth to give us longer growing seasons so that we can cope with the ever increasing population, just a thought.
On pollution, my mom works for Veolia Environmental as a plant manager, and guess what they do, its a multi national corporation that, among other things, takes the waste companies create and make it into clean burning fuel (or simply incinerate it so it doesn\'t end up at a landfill). They do several jobs ranging from taking care of laboratory waste to disposing of military issue nerve gas.
Apart from seeing how American industry cleans up after itself, the fact that my mom works in the hazardous waste industry also means I know all about environmental regulations. Have any of y\'all environmentalists heard of the clean air and water acts and they\'re respective amendments. Well, in short, it means that if you were to go out and breath the air coming out of the emission stacks, it would be cleaner than the air than your breathing now (note, the hazardous waste industry is more heavily regulated than most, but that statement hold true for most industry in the U.S.). Theres also such things as OSHA, which mostly applies to workers safety, but also puts some limits on emissions (in the interest of on site worker safety). So, while Al gore preaches, the rest of us get things done.
However, according to Gore, I\'m just an evil Conservation, so I obviously drown kittens in toxic factory run off and pray to big business gods for acid rain while driving around my SUV and running the thermostat at 60 degrees in the summer. In all actuality, I don\'t own a car, and my carbon \"footprint\" is next to non existent, (that probably won\'t hold for long, Bradleys only get about half a mile to a gallon, but at least ill be car pulling with 8 other guys).
Also, I figure terrorists with a WMD will end the world a whole lot faster than carbon emissions, so for now I\'m joining the USMC, while leaving global warming to the, ahem, experts.
However, just cause I think Global warming is a load of BS doesn\'t mean I think we should all drive SUVs and belch toxic gas into the air. Personally, I\'m a big proponent of clean coal burning and Nuclear power for the immediate future, with eventual replacement by renewable resources in the later future.
Personally, I think Nuclear power is the way to go, not only does it release no emissions into the air, it can use the nuclear material from decommissioned nuclear weapons as fuel, so that way the nuclear waste can at least be put to good use, and if their safe enough to put on military ships and submarines, I figure there good enough for civilian power grids (And for those of you who want to throw Chernobyl at me, that was an isolated incident caused shoddy communist quality control. and name me one person that died in the Three mile island incident or because any other nuclear radiation leak). Even so, we\'ve still got people driving cars from the 20s, so oil will not go away even if we pass laws requiring all new car run on hydrogen or ethanol. So, we need (at least in the U.S.) to stop relying on the middle east and drill in Anwr and the gulf. We also need newer, cleaner, refineries so that we can make gas in a cleaner fashion. Finally, for those of you who like ethanol, all of the extra fertilizer that farmers are using because of increased production is running into the Mississippi River and destroying the Brackish water ecosystems (which is far rarer than any polar bear habitat), which, while destroying an increasingly rare and unique ecosystem, is also hurting the Louisiana seafood industry (and me, being a shrimp lover as well as a Cajun, don\'t like that at all.)
Alright, I\'m done, rant over, feel free to crucify me now.
mattsterbenz
New member
Originally posted by Nelson
AHHHHH *brain explosm*
AL GORE\'S \"theory\"!!??
the theory was around long before Al Gore decided to make a movie about it and open up the entire scientific theory for discrediting by people with some sort of vendetta against a dude they\'ve never met.
It\'s a SCIENTIFIC theory. Look it up.
it\'s very different from the meaning of \"theory\" that\'s bandied around the streets and even university faculties other than hard science.
....talk about politics....
I accept the findings of the vast majority of scientists in the world, who are following the same scientific method that brought us such \"theories\" as the theory of gravity, cell theory etc.
sorry guys, I haven\'t painted a mini in a while now but I still love lurkin on the forums.
p.s. Matt, I like your oil paintings. Are you going to art school?
Are you on the Concept Art forums?
I call it \"Gore\'s theory\" just because he seems to think he claimed it for himself. I know it was around before Mr. Gore was, so was global cooling, etc. I just attribute it to him. I am very aware of scientific theories (two years of astronomy classes, which focus a lot on Earth, surprisingly)
And yes I\'m in art school. Thanks for the kind words about my paintings.
I Don\'t have a concept art account though. I don\'t even really like Deviant Art that much, it\'s just filled with anime, emos and their many self portraits, and nude photography. I\'ll be making a personal gallery page sometime soon Cheers,
-Matt
funnymouth
Active member
gads, this thread is gross.
1st) al gore is certainly not \"the face\" of something which is, fundamentally, a grass roots movement. ultimately its about the blue marble we\'re all sitting on, not some guy who may or may not be doing his part. al gore has, however, reminded the average couch potato that there is an outside, and that some people (somewhere) pay attention to it (\"aaawwww, whats this crap and where is the game?\").
2) please refrain from regurgitating. i find that the vast majority of people who cite historical environmental variance as the actual \"natural\" explanation of recent global climate change have not actually come to that conclusion themselves, but are instead regurgitating some line from someone else. try actually researching the topic, even from something as questionable as wikipedias climate change page. it takes a few minutes, but you might actually better yourself during the nascar commercials. a huge amount of real data exists, the vast majority of which implicates man-made pollutants as a MAJOR factor in climate change.
zelots on all sides tend to ignore and exploit the scientific community to advance their ideological objectives and want a \"yes or no\" answer to all of earths problems. the rapid change in earths climate (yes, a few hundred years is crazy fast for a climate shift) is a complex issue, involving greenhouse gases, particulate pollutants, natural environmental cycles, and changing habitats (eg reduced carbon uptake by marine algae). there is no \"straw that broke the camels back\" but if you look at it objectively, it looks like a bale of hay. so please, lean about it yourself before propagating someone else\'s rhetoric. if you\'d rather blindly refute man\'s ability to impact the environment please suck on a tailpipe. it makes the air taste yummy.
3) IMHO (disclamer: subjective content): the solution to our current energy woes/dependance is not producing more energy, but making things more efficient. earths energy consumption is growing exponentially, and we can build power plants until we all live in the shadow of one, or we can become less wasteful and potentially ensure a less sh!tty world for our descendants. it wont happen on its own of course, because there is big money in inefficiency. it is, indeed, up to us as the consumers to force the market (ourselves) to change. ghasp! i know it seems like a tall order, but someday that light-bulb will burn out and you can replace it with one that is more energy efficient (yes, i use cfls, and, yes, they work fine for mini photography and for finding the remote). it may cost $5 but in the long run it will actually save you money.
4) drink.
1st) al gore is certainly not \"the face\" of something which is, fundamentally, a grass roots movement. ultimately its about the blue marble we\'re all sitting on, not some guy who may or may not be doing his part. al gore has, however, reminded the average couch potato that there is an outside, and that some people (somewhere) pay attention to it (\"aaawwww, whats this crap and where is the game?\").
2) please refrain from regurgitating. i find that the vast majority of people who cite historical environmental variance as the actual \"natural\" explanation of recent global climate change have not actually come to that conclusion themselves, but are instead regurgitating some line from someone else. try actually researching the topic, even from something as questionable as wikipedias climate change page. it takes a few minutes, but you might actually better yourself during the nascar commercials. a huge amount of real data exists, the vast majority of which implicates man-made pollutants as a MAJOR factor in climate change.
zelots on all sides tend to ignore and exploit the scientific community to advance their ideological objectives and want a \"yes or no\" answer to all of earths problems. the rapid change in earths climate (yes, a few hundred years is crazy fast for a climate shift) is a complex issue, involving greenhouse gases, particulate pollutants, natural environmental cycles, and changing habitats (eg reduced carbon uptake by marine algae). there is no \"straw that broke the camels back\" but if you look at it objectively, it looks like a bale of hay. so please, lean about it yourself before propagating someone else\'s rhetoric. if you\'d rather blindly refute man\'s ability to impact the environment please suck on a tailpipe. it makes the air taste yummy.
3) IMHO (disclamer: subjective content): the solution to our current energy woes/dependance is not producing more energy, but making things more efficient. earths energy consumption is growing exponentially, and we can build power plants until we all live in the shadow of one, or we can become less wasteful and potentially ensure a less sh!tty world for our descendants. it wont happen on its own of course, because there is big money in inefficiency. it is, indeed, up to us as the consumers to force the market (ourselves) to change. ghasp! i know it seems like a tall order, but someday that light-bulb will burn out and you can replace it with one that is more energy efficient (yes, i use cfls, and, yes, they work fine for mini photography and for finding the remote). it may cost $5 but in the long run it will actually save you money.
4) drink.
funnymouth
Active member
funny. if by \"planet\" you mean \"rock\" then maybe. if you mean the habitable environment then... well.....to be blunt, you\'re wrong.Originally posted by Thunderhawker
IMHO, anyone who thinks human beings pose a genuine threat to this planet and its inner workings is either deeply deluded or gullible beyond repair.
Paltry, considering Pompeii, Mt. Saint Helens, or the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004. (Which is estimated to have released the energy of 23,000 Hiroshima-type atomic bombs, according to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). )Originally posted by funnymouth
funny. if by \"planet\" you mean \"rock\" then maybe. if you mean the habitable environment then... well.....to be blunt, you\'re wrong.Originally posted by Thunderhawker
IMHO, anyone who thinks human beings pose a genuine threat to this planet and its inner workings is either deeply deluded or gullible beyond repair.
Whatever we do pales in comparison to what nature itself can do.
