Airbrush Confusion 2: The Not So Confused!

[Blackironindustries]

Hello All,

For Christmas I was lucky enough to get an Aztec A4709 Airbrush (AB) from Santa. I will be using this to paint Space Marine vehicles, so not the most complex models but a good stating option. I have done some research into what I need; I am not going to start playing until I have all the necessary equipment.

Also I am from the UK, this may help when advising products as we all know that things differ between countries, like we can’t get Mountain Dew anymore .

Work Area –
From the threads I have read I get the idea that lung full’s of paint is not a good thing so I am looking at getting a small fan, maybe a mains fain that would be used for extraction. Also two lights that can take day light bulbs, one either side, for light. I will let you know my plans as they progress.

Paints –
I want to use GW paints as my army is based on their colours and I can imagine that it would be a pain to colour match with different ranges. I am using Regal Blue and Ultramarine blue for those of you who may know suitable alternatives.

Now I have an airbrush I am going to move away from GW spray cans that some people have commented are not very good, I don’t know why, I like the inconsistency of their product :S. I was looking at using Vallejo “Model Air” or Floquil Light Gray Figure-Primer from Testors as I have read good things about both.

I was wondering about the merits of using Grey primer over my normal much loved black (GW paint in a can normally).

Masking –
On a lot of the vehicles I will be spraying I will have to mask over painted areas to enable me to place some of the Marine Unit markers on.

I have seen Tamiya tape mentioned a few times and latex masking fluid. I am not sure about masking fluid, it sounds annoying, if you know what I mean. Has anyone had direct experience with such things?

Thinning –
I had worked out on my own that I could use water to thin water based acrylic paint, I am that clever! I was wondering what the merits of using other solutions to thin paint.

I have read that I want to aim for a milky or inky consistency. I have seen mention of Halfords Screen Wash anyone have any insight into this, or suggestions of alternatives?

Tutorials –
I can search of course but I was wondering if anyone had come across some good tutorials for airbrushing that might help a newbie.

Finishing –
I was going to use Johnsons Klear as there seems to be a lot of good things said about it, I especially like how diluted it is directly effects the finish.

Has anyone else got any suggestions?

Cleaning –
First of all shoot through some plain old water to get rid of any wet paint then go in with ammonia based cleaner like Windolene. Do others use this?

It’s an Aztec brush so cleaning should be that hard. I will however buy some stiff brushes as I have heard they help a lot.


So I hope that you guys can offer some help and I am expecting a comment or two from three specific posters, we will see if they appear.

 

[airhead]

Don't finish coat with the Klear. It is for reducing your paints, not a clearcoat. Use Testor's DulCoat to protect your finish (or a good matt laquer). Down side to reducing with just water is that you are reducing everything, pigment, viscosity and binder. Use airbrush reducer or Klear and you are adding back a bit of binder to offset the overall reduction.

After you base coat, you'll be doing most of your work with the tan nozzle. Learn to take the little white nylon plug out the back, pull the needle and spring out and flush well. Tap water will generally get it good.

I wouldn't use Citadel/GW spray for primer. Use a decent automotive primer instead or you'll be pulling off a lot of your work with the masking tape. Nothing sadder than pulling up a weeks work when you unmask.

Learn to use post-it notes and airbrush frisket to mask with. Much lower tack and less chance of ruining a paint job.

Plan your approach. Paint from light to dark, then do the details by brush.

 

[Einion]

I was looking at using Vallejo “Model Air” or Floquil Light Gray Figure-Primer from Testors as I have read good things about both.

Auto primer - Hycote or Halfords - is widely available in the UK and is as good, or better than, both of those. And significantly cheaper as a rule (see here).

These are widely used by AFV and aircraft modellers in the UK so obviously they're fine enough for this application.

I was wondering about the merits of using Grey primer over my normal much loved black (GW paint in a can normally).

Well grey primer would be primer, that's a good start :angel:

Depending on how you spray and the results you're looking for you might actually want to pre-shade your vehicles if you prime in grey but grey is easier to cover, so it's mostly a better choice than black as a primer colour.

Masking –
On a lot of the vehicles I will be spraying I will have to mask over painted areas to enable me to place some of the Marine Unit markers on.

I have seen Tamiya tape mentioned a few times and latex masking fluid. I am not sure about masking fluid, it sounds annoying, if you know what I mean. Has anyone had direct experience with such things?

I don't know what the Marine Unit markers look like but Tamiya masking tape is the bees' knees judging from all the plugs in reviews and articles. So if you'll be masking hard-edged shapes from scratch then this is certainly one of the best choices.

Latex masking fluid is great, it can be a bit tedious to use but you get used to it - just like with cleaning out the airbrush, you learn to accommodate if the end results are worth it to you. But it's really best suited to masking irregular areas and irregular shapes, which I don't think you'll need to do a lot?

Silly Putty, Blu-Tack or something similar can be used for that kind of thing too and they have the advantage of being reusable.

In addition to Post-Its and frisket, worth considering getting some Parafilm-M too (buy from a laboratory suppliers, not a hobby source if possible) if you want to mask much.

Thinning –
I had worked out on my own that I could use water to thin water based acrylic paint, I am that clever! I was wondering what the merits of using other solutions to thin paint.

Using some Klear or Future in addition to water is basically the same as using airbrush medium - a means to prevent the paint becoming underbound when thinned heavily.

Just water can work fine for spraying but if you intend to handle your finished models much you'll have to be more cautious than if you paint for display only, plus a good clearcoat will help protect paintwork and decals from handling, if required. Problems with paint becoming underbound can occur but acrylic and vinyl paints are generously supplied with binder as a rule so it's not something to worry about much - lots and lots of magazine articles mention using screenwash for thinning and that too has no additional binding agent.

Finishing –
I was going to use Johnsons Klear as there seems to be a lot of good things said about it, I especially like how diluted it is directly effects the finish.

What's do you intend the finish for?

Cleaning –
First of all shoot through some plain old water to get rid of any wet paint then go in with ammonia based cleaner like Windolene. Do others use this?

If the paint you end up using is soluble in Windolene this is a good basic method.

As airhead mentions above you will need to get comfortable with disassembling the nozzles to get them thoroughly clean*. And yes, stiff-bristled paintbrushes can help swish out paint that's stubbornly clinging to recesses, even after a long soak in solvent or cleaner, or to remove buildup from the nozzle tip during spraying.

So I hope that you guys can offer some help and I am expecting a comment or two from three specific posters, we will see if they appear.

Two down one to go :smile-big:

*Tips:
http://www.howtoairbrush.com/index.php/site/lesson/cleaning_aztek_airbrush_nozzle/
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=23856
http://www.ehow.com/way_5562082_aztek-airbrush-instructions.html

Einion

 

[Elthiar]

Thank you Blackironindustries for asking this question! I just learned so much from reading the answers to your question that I'm digging my own Aztek out of storage this weekend, giving it the thorough cleaning (which I was always told I shouldn't do) and firing it up once more. And thanks to everyone for the answers! Awesome Post!!

 

[daddyo]

the best thing you can do to learn how to use an airbrush is to shoot paint thru it! and keep it clean. the aztec breaks down pretty easy. take your time, experiment. sticky notes make good masks, cheap too. frisket is the next step up but it can be a pain the butt sometimes. i've used liquid mask, but only for areas that are very fine, like cockpit canopy frames and such.

i use mine for large areas of color (aircraft and tanks). the airbrush is a quick and reliable tool.

 

[Blackironindustries]

I am playing that card on myself for this thread resurrection.

Ok so in 8 months what have I done . . . er . .

- Worked really hard at my job
- Built 200 odd minis
- Painted a lot by hand
- Built a spray booth (it’s a cut up card board box, I would have done better but please see above)
- Drank beer

I am now literally on the verge of spraying something with an airbrush, hopefully it will be a model but again I have a few queries.

1. I have bought some Johnsons Klear and was wondering if anyone can offer some insight into ratios of thinning so I have a rough idea.

2. Measuring out paint, do people just pour and guess or use syringes and do it more precisely?

3. I am currently hand painting my minis, basecoat and all, then adding several line highlights so they are a nice gaming standard. I am just about to spray all the vehicles, do you suggest I just spray them the main colour then dark line and then line highlight or grade them and then line highlight?

Answers on a postcard . . . hang on lets just go with post a reply.

BII

 

[Einion]

It's not really thread necromancy when you post to your own thread with an update :highfive:

I am now literally on the verge of spraying something with an airbrush...

:rotfl:

2. Measuring out paint, do people just pour and guess or use syringes and do it more precisely?

Do you mean for dilution ratio or for colour mixing? Either way I do it by eye.

Einion

 

[spacehead]

I am playing that card on myself for this thread resurrection.

Ok so in 8 months what have I done . . . er . .

- Worked really hard at my job
- Built 200 odd minis
- Painted a lot by hand
- Built a spray booth (it’s a cut up card board box, I would have done better but please see above)
- Drank beer

I am now literally on the verge of spraying something with an airbrush, hopefully it will be a model but again I have a few queries.

1. I have bought some Johnsons Klear and was wondering if anyone can offer some insight into ratios of thinning so I have a rough idea.

2. Measuring out paint, do people just pour and guess or use syringes and do it more precisely?

3. I am currently hand painting my minis, basecoat and all, then adding several line highlights so they are a nice gaming standard. I am just about to spray all the vehicles, do you suggest I just spray them the main colour then dark line and then line highlight or grade them and then line highlight?

Answers on a postcard . . . hang on lets just go with post a reply.

BII

Black - Firstly where did you get the klear from? - I have after it for ages since my stock ran dry?

Also as a relatively newbie to airbrushes I cannot recommend Vallejo Model Air enough, use it straight out the pot so you can worry about spraying rather than getting your consistences right.

I have an old melted rhino (don't ask) that I constantly practice with to get shading right etc and with new colours - worth practising allot before getting paint on your proper minis.

Shading - I found after applying the base colours spray your entire mini in klear and then use oils and white spirit for the black linning.

 

[barticus001]

When shooting GW paint at vehicles I dilute with about 1 part Acrylic Thinner to 4 parts paint. I do it by eye. The paint is like skim milk in consistency when I like to use it. I have used distilled water in a pinch instead of thinner with no issues.
I run GW paint through a little funnel with a couple brass screens stuffed in its spout to screen the paint before I use it in the airbrush.
I have brought home new pots of GW paint, added the thinner, put them in the Robart hobby paint shaker for 30 seconds, ran the paint through the funnel and have had big globs of coagulated paint left in the funnel.
Since I have been pre-screening the paint I have not had to stop in the middle of a painting session to clear a clog.

 

[Einion]

Black - Firstly where did you get the klear from? - I have after it for ages since my stock ran dry?

Do you want to get this locally or is ordering online okay?

Either way, you might have better luck looking for Pledge Multi-Surface Wax

Einion

 

[spacehead]

Einion - Thanks matey

 

[Blackironindustries]

Oh I I have been waiting to use that card for ages . . . ah well.

@Einion - Yeah I was wondering on a ratio of klear to paint but I think barticus001 just cleared that up for me.

@spacehead - It took me while to find it at a decent price and I was surprised when ebay came out on top.
- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-HIGH-QUAL...EST-PRICE-/380130210258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3
That should help you out, it is from the UK ebay site tho.
I have an old knackered tank I will make my spray "buddy", thanks for the tip.

@barticus001 - Where do you get the brass filters from? Sounds like a good idea, been using workshop paints for years and occasionsly get some globs of goo.

So close to getting spraying I can feel the blasts for air.

BII

 

[barticus001]

@Blackironindustries - I get the brass screens at the local tobacco shop. Amazon has some 3/4" brass screens listed under health and beauty.

I imagine any screen will work. I read about some sort of silk screen device that filters paint for fine detail airbrushing.

 

[airhead]

A piece of womens' stocking stretched over a paint bottle will work as a filter.

Take the top off of the bottle, stretch a piece of stocking across the opening, put the top back on.

Just gotta put a new piece over the top of the bottle each session as the paint hardens in the weave.

 

[Hasdrubal]

I'm airbrushing GW Citadel and Foundation ranges, P3 paints as well as Vallejo Air colors, and Vallejo Air thinner to reduce my paints. The "skim milk consistency" is difficult to get at first but after a while you'll be able to see when the paint is thinned enough. The following ratios work OK for me, they serve as a basis before tailoring the mix:
- GW Foundation and VA primer: 1:2 paint - thinner
- P3: 2:3 paint - thinner
- GW Citadel: 1:1 paint - thinner
- VAC: 3:1 paint - thinner

You need to thoroughly shake your paints before pouring your mix in the AB, I usually shake vigorously the paint jar using 60-90 seconds before taking the paint to be reduced. The needle size you use is also important: I'm using a 0.4 needle, ideally I'd like to get a 0.5 but it's not available for the Evolution I'm paint with.